http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=44217

I didn't think we were so rich as to throw money away like this, but then what's 17 mill when we just threw 200 bill into the pokies.

Oh and here's a great way to solve the problem without the 17 mill:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/1443931/img/Cool-pics/wine-corks.jpg

This "thing" they call the prime minister really boggles the mind <holds head in hands>

Thing they call the PM?
While it not worth the effort you are at the wrong end of the beast.
The emissions come from the digestive system not the source of your understanding of politics.
World wide the intent is to supplement feed to see less emissions.

RawMustard,

You dont know what a joy it is to see someone posting who thinks for him / herself. Your comment on the Tuesday, 22 July 2008 1:31:47 AM
was "spot on'

This is a world wide stock market project take over.
I will post on the USA UK links when I have a moment.
We dont have a problem with people making a profft but this move is to put small farmers out of business and divert into intensive breeding only.
That has its own problems with disease and animal welfare issues.

How they intend to do this is to supply free transport to farms topick up the cow poo which will be shipped to USA to divert into electricity.

Of course if he farmer does meet his quot he will be fined. Farmers work long hours and to walk around picking upcow poo is out of the question. ( i could argue it also goes against proper farming methods but wont)=
In the mean time think you mind find this of interest=

Former Celtic Resources chairman, Peter Hannen, claims that "agriculture is the new gold". Hannen has sold his mining assets in Celtic to Severstal and has joined forces with Dexion Capital to raise approximately $A300 million worth of rural property. The property assets will be used to establish Global Farming Limited and are expected to produce returns in the range of 12 to 16 per cent annually. An estimated 33 per cent of the funds raised will be invested in Australia. Global Property will eventually be listed on the London Stock Exchange's Alternative Investment Market. The partners had raised about $A70 million to date.

RawMustard,
Sorry, that should have read. if farmers do 'not meet their quota there are charged.
I go out of my way on OLO to try to keep my comments simple so the general public and others posters can follow.
What this is is all about the take over of a new energy supply by a company world wide.
The 17 mil was promised to that company who intend to take over the stock market. Other countries have also given millions of dollars of their tax payer’s funds to this company.
The Consept of turning cow poo into energy itself isn’t the problem.
It’s the way in which they intend to go about it.
Putting small farmers out of business. Holding Animals in intensive feed lots which are inherently cruel. A giggling bunch of scientists when asked described how they stuck tubes up a cow’s bum and noses even they couldn’t keep a straight face. Of course these cruel things are put on the cows to make it look like they are doing something with our money they stole to put into this company which is again off shore owned leading all the way to China via UK US,

Time to wake up.
These feed lots produce disease apart from other animal welfare problems. To make the whole thing a lot funnier to these guys the Veggies organisations have ‘swallowed’ :) their cow poo story. Or maybe they have always been a political animal . who knows.
And they say pigs can’t fly- hilarious.

We can have our own plants made from cow poo but lets attack the coal problem first by replacing our own energy via a cow poo plant in Australia.
Would you like us to send you a shovel Mr Rudd.
Why dont you tell the tax payers to truth about the funds going to a word wide company? not research. Lets face it if UK and USA are involved in the same research>? we dont need to do it here also.
No wonder why the scientists were giggling unable to keep a straight face themselves.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/08/tax-cow-emissions-us-news

It is a world wide attempt to fix a problem.
One well known and often talked of.
It truly can be halved in the way Foxy talks of.
I leave the thread to others, but calling the PM a thing?

It is not as silly as it sounds. An article on the DAFF site states that - “Livestock with high feed efficiency not only produce less methane emissions, they also reduce the amount of grain diverted from human consumption and biofuel synthesis,” Nick said.

So maybe not just about farting but better food efficiency.

http://www.daff.gov.au/brs/science-awards/winners_2008/dr_nicholas_hudson

On another note, if we addressed the issue of overpopulation, the spinoffs would be beneficial society wide including the issue of too many cow farts.

I wasnt getting into climate change so much as where the 17 million of tax payers funds are going and why.

Its the greatest con yet.

Grass fed Free Range is the only answer and not grain intensive- sorry.
Farmers were right to condemn Mr Pachauri’s claims, especially that 18% of “warming” was due to farm animal emissions.

Not to mention havent we learned yet after the Victorian fires what removing live stock does.

According to the NBA the vegetarian alternatives of lentils, pulses and cereals all require tractor fuel for their production and it takes 10 units of fossil fuel energy to produce every unit of this type of food.

“Even if it were possible to plough our grasslands and moorlands and grow vegan food, the carbon release would be far greater than centuries of the exhalations of cattle and sheep,”

The that methane is produced by bacteria consuming vegetation - whether inside the bovine rumens or outside.

Where there are no ruminants, all uneaten grass will decay and in wet conditions bacteria decomposing vegetation will give off methane.

“The only landscape that does not produce methane is a desert,”

Global warming theorists should be more concerned by other potential sources of carbon release.

Researchers discovered that plants produce up to one-third of the second most important greenhouse gas - methane.

If true, it suggests that global deforestation will lead to declining levels of atmospheric methane.

“How very odd that when 60m buffalo roamed the US in the 1800s, we were in the grip of the Little Ice Age.

Environmentalist often cite the claim that cattle require 8kg of grain for every 1kg of beef grown.

The NBA says this is misleading: poultry and pigs require grain but ruminants - other than bull dairy calves - are usually not fed grain.

Instead beef cows usually graze for most of the year, and are fed over the winter on grass silage, waste feeds such as straw, stock-feed potatoes, waste vegetables, brewers grains, by-product molasses, breakfast cereals, bread and cakes past their sell-by-date, and sugar beet pulp.

[quote]World wide the intent is to supplement feed to see less emissions.[/quote]

More hubris from the gods people refer to as politicians.

Do you really think as a whole, man can control the amount of methane produced by animals without killing them; or us for that matter?
And if animals are such a problem, then why does man even exist?
A thousand years ago, were there not just as many animals if not more, constantly belching, farting, defecating, on the planet as there are now?
And a thousand years before that, larger and more animals doing the same? Only replaced by humans. Perhaps we should have a world wide ban on baked beans, or better yet, increase the carbon tax on baked beans!

Oh and I won't even mention the amount of volcanic activity constantly belching and farting making the air almost impossible to breath, yet man survived and prospered.

@ "People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming" (phew, what a mouth full, but I'm sure you have good intentions.)

Thanks for showing the real intent, but I doubt the sheep will see it through all the methane they produce :)

CONTINUED

[quote]I leave the thread to others, but calling the PM a thing?[/quote]

Then what is it?
"Rudd studied at the Australian National University in Canberra where he resided at Burgmann College and graduated with First Class Honours in Arts (Asian Studies). He majored in Chinese language and Chinese history, became proficient in Mandarin and acquired a Chinese alias, Lù Kèwén.

Oh the credentials of a Mandarin speaking Arts Student. Last time I checked, a bachelor in arts neither created the arts, nor built the room in which to house them, in fact it was too stupid to do either. To me it's a "thing" of no importance or value to the development of civilization! It certainly is not a god capable of changing the weather!

Perhaps this little article might offer some insight into why our planet is warming slightly:
http://alexansary.com/Editorial/Sun%20spots%20and%20a%20weakened%20magnetic%20field.html

You know, it's about time humans started waking up to the fact that there's too many useless eaters on this rock. You know... the ones that study Art and Mandarin! Amongst others.

OFF TOPIC
What a stupid forum, 350 words and no editing or styling in 2009?

Pale! Now human population wouldn't be the cause for the farts in the first place?

I have only read the first last lines, but what a load of crap!

EVO

This argument highlights the total dishonesty of the whole green house gas debate. Only an idiot, or a cheet, buying greenie votes could spend taxpayer money in such a stupid way.

With grass fed ruminants, like our cows, every bit of carbon they pass has come from where? The grass they eat. And just where did the grass get that carbon, the air of course.

Just where was that carbon in the grass going, back to the air.

The grass may be consumed by a cow, a fire or a microbe, but, unlike timber, it's going back to the air, quick time. In fact it's fair to say that our cows form a short/medium term carbon sink, as the carbon, from that grass becomes part of their substance, & is retained for some years.

Eliminate all the grass eating animals from the planet, & you will release many millions of tons more carbon into the atmosphere.

All greenhouse arguments are dishonest, but none more so than the attempt to include livestock in the argument, as part of the problem. Even a plate of lentils produced more CO2 than a slab of grass fed beef. Even a linguist must be able to see this. The fact that he claims otherwise says much about our PMs ethics.

After this one, anyone who believes a single word he says is a "bl@@dy idiot".

You couldn't make it up !

This has got to be a plot for a Monty Python Show !

Where are the men in white coats ?
To top it all off they will buy CO2 credits from the Russian Oligarchs.

Martin Luther, where are you ?

RawMustard, Hasbeen,

I applauded your comments and salute you both.


When I first heard Peter Hannen, claims that "agriculture is the new gold" and the pitch to open a company called Global Farming Limited to put up on the share markets I thought there is something fishy here.
Hannen has sold his mining assets in Celtic to Severstal and has joined forces with Dexion Capital to raise approximately $A300 million worth of rural property. The property assets will be used to establish Global Farming Limited.

I’ve made a summary of some of what I understood regarding this movement that’s ‘supposed’ to be about cows and Global Warming.
Below we have one of their many pitches on the stock market.

“The price of a subscription to The Alternative Energy Trader is $1,995 per year Special New Year`s Discount $999”


Does Kevin Rudd deny the 17 million from our tax payers money went to help reach this target of 300 million to form Global marketing Limited?

Is it possible the truth is the 17 million went to these people to form a new Global Stock Marketing exchange?

http://www.austbeef.com.au/public/PropertyProductDisplay.asp?PID=N10946&RURL=/postings/15403/news/News10946.html
Australian Beef Association News
ABA is Totally Opposed to Any Form of Emissions Trading
Published: 20 Jan 2009
News ID: 10946
The Concept is Similar to a Gambling Casino Based on Hot Air

ABA Chairman, Brad Bellinger said, The ABA Board had met last week and decided to oppose any form of Emissions Trading. He said that the Australian Government will be acting like speculative fools, if it goes down a path of trading something that cannot be accurately measured.

He continued, Since the 1997 Kyoto Summit, we have seen the UN try to run a Clean Development Mechanism, - with no success. We have seen the European Commission try Carbon Permits. They got their sums wrong and the large power and oil companies made fortunes at governments' expense. The people are taxed - as they will be in Australia if we go down this mad path.'

Bazz, if it wasn`t that serious it would be funny.



Antje Struthmann

Our planet has gone through a constant cycle of, firstly, warming bringing about melting of the ice caps and alpine regions and thus cooling the seas and increasing river flows, which then expand and form massive ice sheets over a period of thousands of years which brings on another ice age. This cycle occurred for millions of years and seems to have been brought about at times by natural disaster i.e. meteor or the like, or massive volcanic eruption. In any event global warming was in place long before the rise of modern man and I believe all the greenhouse gas we can produce combined today will not stop another warming period. To concentrate on reigning in animal emissions is a miniscule exercise and we would be better suited to focus and fund farming the sea (aquaculture) in order to provide enough food to feed our starving planet, and also to expand hydrophonic technology.

Rhonda,
The glacial periods are brought on by variations in the earth's
orbit around the sun.

Can I humbly suggest that people look up the website
that was given in RawMustard's opening post, and from
which I quoted in my opening post.
The facts are listed there:

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=44217

These are the facts concerning Australia and the $17 million.
The money will fund (as the article tells us),"18 areas of
research, including dietary changes, genetic manipulation and
ways to control stomach bacteria..." among the research
projects ,"is one that looks in ways of ...manure managment
innovations..." These research projects will provide jobs
for people - and who knows - discoveries may be made that will
actually prove to be beneficial to the country's livestock -
of "85 million sheep, more than 31 million beef and dairy
cattle, and 3 million goats..."

Nothing ventured, nothing gained - right?

As for our Prime Minister's qualifications? I didn't realize
that having a degree and being able to speak other languages
(especially Mandarin - considering we live in the Asia Pacific
Region - and do business with Asia) was considered a disadvantage?

I am not too concerned at raw mustards view of Rudd.
Bias shown in the first post, just thrown 200 million into the poker machines?
untrue and biased, the pain in not winning the last election is on display, little else of value is.

[quote]the pain in not winning the last election is on display[/quote]

My kind don't really care about winning any elections.
See that's the problem, these false gods you call your leaders are what's destroying our lives and our planet, you're just too brainwashed(sorry that was harsh) to see it yet! Why on earth would I care for a lying, thieving, disgusting, no putrid, no repugnant, human being as any leader of the liberal or labour party, or any of those following up?

Don't take this personally Belly, I've read a lot of your posts and I can see you're pure of heart, but please, try to see the whole forest not just the trees.

[quote]Nothing ventured, nothing gained - right?[/quote]

Some things are best left alone. Nature has had millions/billions of years to get things right and you think man can come along and make it better in a few hundred years? The hubris is astounding!

As far as the things qualifications, what has it done to fix anything?
Do you feel your life is on the improve with it at the helm, or are you simply just worried about the price of your house?

Anyone with just a little bit of brain matter still not totally blended by the system can see that the way we have lived for the past 200 years can no longer continue. You can throw all the fiat money you like at the problem, but at the end of the day, the truth will reveal all and it aint a pretty picture! That great river in Egypt is totally over populated these days!

Foxy
If it happens under an ALP Government than its ok without checking anything out. Pardon me, if I point out your lack of interest in anything to do with agriculture in the past. That was despite the fact you opened a thread on meat a long way back. I think frm memory it was Halal Meat. Again you left the thread as others were posting informed information.


May I humbly suggest you scroll down from that same site and read the comments being from US farmers who with respect have more understanding and information in the area of beef.


My interest in a very real. Do you have any idea the outcome for animals world wide if this is not challenged. Do you? As if things were not bad enough for animals already.

Do you even care at the degree of cruelty your supporting. You don’t understand anything be it Animal Welfare, jobs, value adding or scams as far as I can see.

! Funny! You don’t suggest we go back and study the facts posted earlier like-

Former Celtic Resources chairman, Peter Hannen, claims that "agriculture is the new gold". Hannen has sold his mining assets in Celtic to Severstal and has joined forces with Dexion Capital to raise approximately $A300 million worth of rural property. The property assets will be used to establish Global Farming Limited and are expected to produce returns in the range of 12 to 16 per cent annually. An estimated 33 per cent of the funds raised will be invested in Australia. Global Property will eventually be listed on the London Stock Exchange's Alternative Investment Market. The partners had raised about $A70 million to date

Dear whisperer,

I don't recall posting a thread on meat - because
frankly its not an area that's of any interest to me. As for my
leaving any thread I've already explained why I've done so
several times in the past to you. It's usually because the
subject has run its course - and I have nothing more
constructive to say.

If you want any one to respect your views on subjects,
you should return that same courtesy to others.
I've never once attacked you, yet you keep sniping at me,
at my views - why I do what I do, or don't do what I do.
I don't question your motives - or make assumptions about
your politics. Discussions are not supposed to get personal.

My reference to the website I quoted was to again direct
posters who may be interested to learn what this Government's
reason for spending the $17 million was. After all that is
the subject of this thread.

What you'd like posters to read is up to you to tell them -
that's your job. Not mine.

But trying to explain anything to you I'm beginning to see
is an exercise in futility. So in future - let's just
go our separate ways shall we? You'll be happy, and so
will I.

Cheers.

I dont give a damn about farting cows. I wish I could do something about my farting dog who raises such a stink that it erodes my nasal membranes. The other day some old ladies called over to see my wife about church subscriptions and as they started talking the dog began his farting the old dears coughed into their tiny handkerchiefs and tears rolling down their cheeks they sadly retreated witha coughing fit. I should be thankful I suppose but I have to live with the animal for much longer.

Any ideas.None involving death and torture will be read..

socratease

Whilst I agree that we must continue with research in order to combat clobal emissions - at what price. We are heading towards recession in Australia and with that in mind I find it ludicrous for our Government to contibute $17m towards a project aimed at lessening cow farts. The money would be better spent helping small business and anchoring many jobs which are at the present time in jeopardy. It is common knowledge that livestock are required to keep huge areas of undergrowth under control thus lessening vulnerability to bushfires, and placing cattle in controlled feed lots would certainly defeat this purpose.

hasbeen made a point that is very well seen. The more we grow, the more we sink in sh2T.

funny LITTLE TWIST. LOL

evo

80 % of that we think is for the logical minded, the 20 must be the answers that we can not comprehend, with some. logic for the answers must be in the Revered, has no correlation with the times.

Just some food for thought.( as always )
If the imposable is where the answer lays, isn't that the place we should be looking?

Man should not trust his or her,s eyes. Remember! we know not much, but tricks comes easy.

EVO

Let me offer a very subtle and subtle interpretation of the problem of farting animals and PLEASE do respond to me accepting or rejecting the wisdom of this farting sage!!
LOL!!

We shouldnt blaming the poor sheep oand cows and goats too when the parliaments around the world are full of farts as well.The animals cant help doing what they do; the pollies are the real culprits.

socratease

Socratease I agree, we should not tamper with what comes naturally. Nature has a way of balancing and given time this will happen. It plays on my mind that to place livestock in massive feedlots in lieu of roaming free, would be very cruel indead and would be totally unacceptable. Mr. Rudd please keep this in mind.