MJ,

Maybe true, maybe not, who knows, thing is, if this guy is in any measure anti-semetic, which any level of holocaust denyal is, the reasons he was out then back in in the past don't really matter... what matters is his reform or removal.

Foxy, I have one typed out... I'll post on Monday, how many stamps did you put on?

So on the (evening of the? I think I read somewhere) 21st January, 2009 this guy for a Society which most people have never heard of made some offensive comments on Swedish TV and by the 25th January, 2009 it was being reported that the Pope had lifted the excommunications.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/39269

So some time presumably on the 24th or 25th the excommunications were lifted. So we are so certain that the Pope must have known about it that we are bad mouthing him in here. In my religion there is a belief that it is wrong to bear false witness against your neighbour. Personally I think that is a wise approach any way you slice it whether secular or religious.

Foxy

"As a religious leader the Pope is supposed to be
concerned with building bridges between people.
He's supposed to be - for compassion, and justice.
He's supposed to set an example for his flock."

With the greatest of respect, Foxy, this issue to my mind is a storm-in-a-teacup compared to the blatant and systemic dishonouring of the principles you've outlined above, which the Catholic Church has engaged in for centuries.

The fact that one of the world's wealthiest institutions can amass fortunes worth untold billions and and have its leaders live in the lap of luxury - while millions of its devotees and its country parishes routinely languish in poverty, the fact that the Church actively promotes discrimination against homosexuals and denies women the right to control their own fertility, and the way this is contributing to the world's population blowout, just for starters, puts a different perspective on this little matter, well for me at least.

Not to say, I'm not in agreeance with your point that Holocaust deniers should remain excommunicated for life. I agree with you totally that they should.

Banjo

"Surely a person can question the figures without saying the event(s) never took place. I have been called a 'denier' about climate change, yet I only question the human involvement in climate change."

Ah, Banjo, how disingenuous of you! Of course you're a climate change 'denier'. If you deny the well documented and widely accepted reasons for the occurence of climate change, which you do, then you are in all probability also in denial about the solutions that are needed. This is the real problem.

If you did agree with the scientific consensus that we should reduce our carbon emissions and our general human footprint on this earth, regardless of what you believe the causes of climate change to be, then your denial in itself is not going to hinder progress towards achieving that goal. But I doubt very much that that's your position.

Most people who deny the anthropogenic causes of climate change also deny the need to radically reduce emissions.

Bronwyn,
Not wishing to detract from Foxy's thread, I will save your comments about 'denial' and take you up on them when next a climate change thread comes up. I think the word 'denier' is inappropriate though if the fellow has said the figures are wrong and has not disputed the Holocaust took place. It is a tactic used to put the accused on the defensive.

Ah Banjo, it would only have taken a sentence or two, not enough to derail Foxy's thread in the slightest, but I'll allow you that little cop out!

As for the 'denier' tag in the context in question here, if Bishop Williamson has denied the extent of the numbers of people killed, that's still denial in my book. Purely out of consideration for Holocaust survivors and relatives of victims, it seems particularly insensitive and straight out crass to even think of quibbling over numbers. And my guess is that if he's pushed the envelope that far, he's more than likely got some broader sort of denial agenda regarding the Holocaust more generally - not unlike most climate change 'deniers' really when you think about it! :)

Dear Meredith,

Sorry that I didn't respond earlier but I had used
up my post limit and had to wait until now.

The letter to the Vatican cost me $2.05.
I sent it Air-Mail.

Dear Banjo,

The reason Bishop Richard Williamson has been called a
Holocaust denier is because he has stated quite openly
that no Jews died in Nazi gas chambers. He totally
denies the crematorium system of Nazi Death Camps
that operated from 1942-1945. Despite the fact that
physical evidence exists to the contrary.

The Bishop was interviewed on Swedish State TV on Saturday
where he made his controversial comments. If you google
the subject, there are videos that can be viewed of the actual
interview.

Dear mjpb,

I'm sure that Pope Benedict XVI has his own reasons for re-instating
Bishop Richard Williamson (and the three others). However, the
re-instatement did occur after the interview was aired.
The Pope may not have known about it. But someone at the Vatican
should have. Because the effect was instant, and world-wide.

It was also unfortunate to announce the re-instatement
at a time when people worldwide were having an annual Holocaust
Commemoration.

The Pope should forbid the man from speaking publicly (at the
very least).

Personally, I don't feel that the man should have been re-instated.
I don't think he's the type of role-model we need in the Church.
He's doing a great deal of damage. And undoing the work of Vatican II.
Which had succeeded in building bridges between the Catholic Church
and Judaism.

As I stated earlier, the Pope seems to want to do things right, but
in this case he need to do the right things. Advocating tolerance
is one thing, but actions speak louder than words.