YAbby and Ludwig.

Add my support to your expressions of complete disgust at the immoral intervention of the Catholic Church and its co-conspirators in denying one of the most significant tools available to dragging third world countries out of poverty.

I suppose a basis of ignorance and abject poverty is a good and easy pool to source low level recruits and congregants for any organisation, the hierarchy of which which understands the subtleties involved in the pursuit of absolute power

*Add my support to your expressions of complete disgust at the immoral intervention of the Catholic Church and its co-conspirators in denying one of the most significant tools available to dragging third world countries out of poverty.*

Col and Ludwig, thanks for taking the time to think about and respond
to this issue, for sadly, most people don't even care, as it does
not affect them personally. Its a third world problem, not their
problem.

Yet even today in the Phillipines, Catholic organisations are
encouraging ever larger families, Catholic hospitals, which largely
control medical facilities, are denying people the snip or having
their tubes tied, despite their pleas. It does not fit in with
Catholic dogma.

So what we in the West take for granted, they can only dream of,
as a right which they should have.

It is for this reason that I regularly attack the Catholic Church,
for yup, I think it is immoral.

Ludwig, hopefully the Gates Foundation will think about these issues.

Bill Gates is actually good friends with Warren Buffett and I gather
that Buffett has spent some of his money, supporting family planning,
much to the disgust of the extreme religious lobby.

Please, let’s have a realistic look at the statistics.

Traditional Catholic countries now have a low birthrate. Those who believe that the majority of Catholics in the West adhere to the Church’s edict on birth control, are incorrect. They don’t! Catholics in the West have decreased in numbers - particularly Europe.

What is disturbing is the Catholic church’s push into Asia and Africa. Many Asians and Africans are uneducated and are easily influenced by religion. Catholic numbers in Asia and Africa are on the increase but let us not forget that countries with the largest population growths are not Catholic!:

http://siakhenn.tripod.com/birth.html

What I find disturbing is the lack of concern on this thread about the rapid increase in Islam. The Islamic religion is now the largest on the planet and has overtaken Catholicism, however, Islam continues to dominate in Africa so let’s keep the current figures in perspective. The other disturbing factor is that even in the oil rich countries, Muslims are breeding like rabbits. These countries are eco-vandals!

Frankly I would recommend that any leader (religious or non-religious)in any country, who is recommending population growth, should be bloody well locked up. First guy to start with in Australia would be Mr Five Percent. Then we should go after Archbishop Pell who continues to deny anthropogenic climate change. If one could catch up with Yellow Cake Johnny, well give him a slap up too!

Poor women in other nations, already burdened with many children, are servile to their sexual partners who will help themselves at the drop of a hat without the slighest thought of practising their own birth control. Why mitigate 5 seconds of pleasure by withdrawing or carrying a condom eh? Less blame on the women please.

A couple of Gates’ grants to set up interest bearing pension funds in the poorest villages in Asia and Africa could see a significant reduction in population growth.

*Those who believe that the majority of Catholics in the West adhere to the Church's edict on birth
control, are incorrect.*

Err Dickie, nobody has claimed that. In the West, where people
are more educated, have more rights and more freedoms, a large
% of Catholics told the Vatican to get stuffed, when it came
to their sex lives. In the third world, they don't always have
those options.

Fact is that no organisation on earth has done more to prevent
people in the third world having access to modern family planning,
as we have it in the West, then the Catholic Church. As we can
see, if funding is cut off, their objective is achieved and
even Australia seemingly does not have the testicles to stand
up to the Vatican on this one.

*What I find disturbing is the lack of concern on this thread about the rapid increase in Islam.*

I don't see what that has to do with this thread. Even you would
need to concede that the Catholic Church trying to outbreed their
competition, the Muslims, is not exactly a sustainable option.
Perhaps Islam, with less hangups about sex, is for that very reason
more popular.

There is however a large difference. Islam has no central authority
and is open to interpretation about family planning. Meantime the
Vatican has painted itself into an awkward corner on this issue,
by claiming that the pope is infallible.

Few churches have an office at the UN. Few churches fight any kind
of contraception tooth an nail, as the Vatican does.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

Here’s an interesting piece. http://www.cirtl.org/buffett.htm

It is written by someone who is against any efforts to address population growth. But it does indicate that Bill Gates'close friend and now world's richest man, Warren Buffet, has spent money on ‘family planning causes and other population control efforts’. It also brings to light a related issue that Bill Gates senior was involved with in the sixties.

So come on Bill and Melinda!

Unfortunately it also indicates that if they did get right into population stabilisation, they’d have a few nutters loudly objecting. But then I’m sure they could handle that.

Dear Ludwig,

I looked up http://www.cirtl.org/buffett.htm and was encouraged that some rich people have put their money to fighting uncontrolled population growth. However, it was a nutter's site comparing abortion to the Holocaust. That is an attitude that I find outrageous. I call them nutters. They, I'm sure, think of themselves as good people and those with attitudes such as mine as evil. I don't see how the gap in perception can be bridged. Although I would prefer adequate education in the use of contraceptives and access to their supply so abortion would be less necessary I feel it should be a woman's right in most cases.

I know some Catholics who live in Dorothy Day House. They are activists for peace and get arrested for various acts in protests against militarism. They also are against the death penalty. I find their social attitudes in many respects admirable.

Although they are quite aware of their own impact on the environment and try to keep it minimal they also harass women going to abortion clinics and do not seem the least aware of the effects of overpopulation.

"When the population increases we find ways of increasing the food supply." and "We can always use more people." are two remarks people in that group have made.

Talking to them over the effects of overpopulation is like trying to teach an ox about art.