The Forum > General Discussion > Melinda's mission
Melinda's mission
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Posted by Yabby, Friday, 16 January 2009 2:07:04 PM
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You'll not find any argument from me in relation to the suggestions of enabling family planning for these women. It's eminently reasonable and a very good idea.
I guess the point I'm making is that I view overpopulation as a symptom of poverty, which can also sustain such poverty. Population is a big problem, the second biggest problem that will face the world - but it's tangential to the central problem of poverty stricken nations. Solve that, you solve overpopulation. Solve overpopulation and you've taken a big step towards solving the poverty and resource constraints problems, but they will still exist. That is not to say we shouldn't take direct measures in relation to overpopulation - as I said, those suggestions are very good. Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Friday, 16 January 2009 7:08:33 PM
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*Solve that, you solve overpopulation.*
TRTL, clearly it is not that simple, as my example with Kuwait shows. They are not exactly poor in the Gulf, yet have a rapid population increase. Where the West has gone wrong, is that we thought that boatloads of food and planeloads of vaccines would help Africa. All it has created, is an even greater population explosion and with huge families, even more poverty. We know the basics of solving poverty. Empower people to help themselves! How many kids would you have, if you had regular sexual relations with your partner, but no access to family planning methods? How would you then feed them and educate them all? A Peruvian economist whose name I cannot even remember right now, showed that access to land title is a great way of solving poverty. If you look at a place like Ethiopia, or Sudan, there is no shortage of farmland. In fact they are now about to lease some of that land out to Gulf investors, for it remains unused. But if people don't have legal title to land, they cannot farm it, cannot raise credit to buy the simplest machinery to cultivate it, they are stuck with hand labour from more kids. Microfinance is another key to solving poverty. Again, it is about helping people to help themselves. Combine those three factors and people have the chance of helping themselves out of poverty. A great many will grab that chance, if it is offered to them. Sadly right now, it is not. Bob Geldorf found out about this the hard way. The second time he went back to help the starving in Ethiopia, there were twice as many people! Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 17 January 2009 12:54:38 PM
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http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/women-in-developing-countries-denied-choice/2009/01/18/1232213445531.html
Ludwig, this is worth a read. Even Australian Govts don't have the testicles to tackle the small but noisy religious lobby and help third world women with family planning. We spend billions on overseas aid, but not to help them have smaller families. As I have said before, the Catholic Church have one talent and that is as political lobbyists, behind the scenes, as we can see again in this case. It is disgusting, but that is how it is, I am sad to say. Posted by Yabby, Monday, 19 January 2009 9:54:22 AM
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Disgusting is an understatement Yabby.
Absolutely ficking shuthouse in the highest order. Wow, the Catholic Church really is a tool of the antichrist isn’t it. “We spend billions on overseas aid, but not to help them have smaller families” Doesn’t this create the most enormous niche for an organisation like the Gates Foundation! If only they’d just jump into this massive void and start spending their money on giving women in developing countries the choice not to have children, and on facilitating a lowering of the birthrate around the world… and on appealing to and assisting governments and other organisations to do the same. Come on Bill and Melinda. THIS is where your wonderful humanitarianism and huge financial power are really needed! Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 6:54:23 AM
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I wrote this to the Gates Foundation on 13/01/09:
_______________ Dear Madam/Sir There is currently an online discussion proceeding about the Gates Foundation on Australia’s most eminent online political/social/environmental discussion forum, at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2439 The main gist is one of great support for the efforts of the Foundation, but of considerable dismay at the lack of focus on sustainability or one of its main components; population growth. I feel as though the Foundation is missing a huge part of the picture in not attempting to grapple with this overriding issue and is defeating its own purposes by effectively being seen to just go along with rapid population growth in an obviously grossly overpopulated world, and with the grossly unsustainable path that humanity is heading down. Given the objectives of the Foundation and the sorts of issues that it deals with, this makes no sense to me. My (Ludwig’s) opening post elucidates these concerns: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2439#54223 Further down in this discussion: Melinda Gates could just about be the most important person in the world: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2439#54404 I wonder if anyone would be interested in commenting here on behalf of the Gates Foundation. It would be excellent to have your input. It is very easy to join this forum and make a comment: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/display.asp?page=subscribe Thankyou Yours Sincerely ……. Townsville Queensland Australia _______________ I immediately received an automated reply. I expect that will be the last I hear from them. Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 20 January 2009 7:06:18 AM
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That is just one of many organisations, highlighting the problem.
http://africastories.usaid.gov/search_details.cfm?storyID=505&countryID=28§orID=0&yearID=6
So you have an ever rising population in Africa and one of their
main supplies of food is bushmeat. Why farm it, if you can shoot
it and AK47s are commonly available. So about 1 million tonnes
a year is shot, including the last of the chimps, bonobos and
gorillas.
All very sad really.
TRTL, the issue is to give people access to family planning and
let them choose. If they don't have a choice, you will get what
you have now. We saw in Asia how well family planning worked,when
it was made available. And no, these people didn't all have a
pension to rely on.
Fact is that people will have and enjoy sex, but that does not
mean that they want to make babies all the time