Each year at this time our friend locks herself away for a week or two, in this case two, and engages a water diet her naturopath gave her to 'cleanse' her system.

She also has an iron deficiency.

Both my wife and I as committed christians see this as 'witchcraftie' and of no substance.

Has anyone ever found any value in this type of process?

Our friend will be on water for two weeks then fruit juices then solids.

Could such a process harm her?

This is an extreme example to throw up and doesn't really suggest to me a serious attempt at starting a discussion on the benefits or otherwise of naturoapthy.

I can't imagine any naturopath that I've ever dealt with recommending a two-week water-only cleansing regime. Are you sure you've been presented with the full picture?

If so, I can only conclude that there are obviously some practitioners of naturopathy, just as there are in conventional medicine, who shouldn't be in practice.

Having said that, I'm sure most naturopaths would recommend detoxifying the system as an important first step in attempting to regain good health.

I dont know if it is an extreme example Bronwyn?
Its what she is doing because her naturopath recommended it.

We got concerned because we can see no benefit in what she is doing.

A light diet with some red meat might have been more beneficial to her condition.

Whenever I think of anything that people refer to as 'natural' in the frame of "do it this way and you will live long and happy and healhty" I think of witches around a pot out in an English forest.

Wikipedia says as a criticism that naturopathic medicine is considered by some as being quakery.

A thread is as serious as the knowledge it brings up that might help someone.

Dear Gibo,

I think you're right to be concerned about
your friend.

What she's doing to herself sounds very
extreme - and could have serious effects
on her health.

Flushing your system out of toxins should
only be done under the instructions of a
medical practitioner. I've never heard of
it continuing for a whole week. It certainly
sounds rather odd, and you're right to be
concerned.

Can you get someone else to try to talk to her,
if she won't listen to you?

Another friend or relative?

Many people believe in naturopathy, as an
alternative method of healing, instead of
using drugs. They believe that natural
products have no side effects and are better
for the body. I know just from drinking herbal
teas, for example, the calming effect they have on me.
Peppermint tea stopped me feeling nauseous when I
was pregnant. Garlic helps bring down blood pressure,
and so on.

Queen Elizabeth II is a firm believer in
naturopathy, as was her mother (who lived to be
over 100).

Thats good Foxy.
Our friend is a strong headed girl.
My wife and I intend to keep a close eye on her over the next few days.
She seems happy enough at the moment, but being home alone, weakened by lack of food, watching large numbers of videos to pass the time, might alter her mental health...i.e isolation under such conditions can sometimes open doors for one to hear things?

I didnt know the Queen and her mum were into health that way.
They are/were both long-lived; and I am grateful for that.

Respect for the Royal household may have diminished but we remember the Queen and her mum with great love and adoration.
I couldnt have imagined a world without the Queen.
It would probably would have been full of pollies.
I think we needed a Royal household with long roots going back down through time (I think to Alfred the Great) just for our spiritual health.

Generally not eating for a week will have no ill affects on a person at all as long as they drink fluid. In fact most Aussies could do with a week or so off food after Christmas.

Youre right Runner.
Jesus fasted 40 days in the wilderness and got through it.
I know a few pastors who did 30 days or 40 days and got through ok. Maybe I take up a short fast too.
Id probably do the fruit juice thing after a few days.

Wait, hang on... so, when fasting comes under the title of 'naturopathy' you're suspicious it's some lefty witchcraft cult, but when somebody points out that Jesus did it too, suddenly you're signing up as well?

Jesus allegedly walked on water (I've taken a boat trip on the sea of Galilee, it has sandbars so close to the surface you could see sticks poking through) and turned water into wine.

Have a try of those too, while you're at it, and lemme know how it turns out.

Dunno about either the naturopathic or religious justification of this 2 week water diet you mention, but...

My dog certainly benefits from a weeks fast. Many other animals including humans have traditionally been exposed to such hardship as an unavoidable consequence of the seasons and nomadic tribalism (ancient Hebrews perhaps?). If we assume being adapted to surviving such privation, the process may well become part of the expected annual cycle. Perpetually overfed is a definite health hazard, so I'm inclined to think the 2 week fast is probably not going to be harmful.

I have seen many who would benefit from a much longer fast, and am rapidly heading that way myself.

Happy fasting everyone!

Rusty.

Hi Gibo....

I don't know about the medical facts side of the water diet, though I can guarantee the practioner of such would lose lots of weight :)

I think there is some 'meat' to the idea of a 'cleansing' at the physiological level, I hear a lot about 'cleansing' our system of toxins.. by getting away from some of the more common highly processed foods we munch.. and..I can believe it to a degree.

Scientology has a 'live in detoxification' program and to my shock horror...one of the members of our Bible study group persued this after reading about it in an advert in a magazine he found at our hosts home... needless to say we were all over him like the worst rash he ever had once we knew of his dabbling in that :) grrrrrr...

There are many benefits I'm sure from genuine naturopathic treatments, but also dangers. My brother in law often pointed out various leaves and roots in the Borneo jungle which were a treatment for this or that condition. There was no witchdoctor hocus pocus associated with it.. just "If you have such and such.. you make a tea of this leaf" kind of thing or "rub this leaf on it".

Psychologically at least..the though of having very simple, unprocessed food seems like a good thing. The long water diet though? eeeuwwww.. not for me.. I love me milo too much :)

I 'cleanse' my system by push mowing a couple of acres of grass..and sweat it all out. Like the Ped Egg ad goes "I feel GREAT..yes.. GREAT" :)

I wouldn't be too quick to write off naturopathy as witchcraft, although it would appear that in Australia anyone can be a naturopath, so I would exercise caution in doing what Gibo's friend is doing without proper medical supervision.

Incidentally Gibo, you are probably aware, the Greek word for witchcraft is Pharmacia, where we get the word Pharmacy.

ROFLMAO It's 'witch-craft' to drink water?.

I love how it's the Christians that judge something they have no understanding about. Judge not lest ye be judged.

'I wouldn't do it, so it must be evil!'. Good grief. Fear isn't faith...anyway.

She does it for 14 days and she's a heathen, but Jesus did it for a month and a bit and you worship him?....go figure.

How many drugs and treatments do we use that DIDN'T come from some form of naturopathy?.

StG,

How many drugs....
Ummm the antibiotics, most antidepressants, antipsychotics, antihypertensives, insulin, heparin, cancer chemotherapeutics, reverse transcripase inhibitors, and antihistamines to name a few.
Most of these do not even correspond to a naturally occurring compound, and those that do have no pre-existing use in the raw form. Yes penicillin has a natural source but required extensive concentration from this source to be effective, nor is a "traditional" use of heparin or insulin possible.

How many treatments....
Ummm just about all the ones naturopathy doesn't endorse would be the glib answer but how about blood transfusion, organ transplantation, metal fillings, implanted prosthetics, anaesthesia (as a concept, not just the drugs), fluoridation. Not so sure here as naturopathy may well endorse all of these....

That being said, humans may be well adapted biologically to periods of fasting and given artifially generated plenty (agriculture) artificial privation might well be a good idea. Wouldn't do it without backup though....

Rusty.

TRTL.
Im always suspicious with unqualified medicines and health programmmes.
Ive seen too many stories of deaths because of hocus pocus techniques.

'Jesus fasts' I dont mind, though I would go for a shorter one than 40 days.
Many christians do fasting to hear from God...which they do.

I got no trouble with Jesus walking on water.
The Holy Spirit took the weight off Him like He did Samson (Judges chapters 15 & 16).

From time to time The Spirit of The Lord came upon Samson and he did supernatural acts.
God lifted the weight.
Ive had The Lord help from time to time when carrying heavy loads.
He lifts the weight off... and things are much easier.

Thanks Rusty.
That helped also. A fast for our cats probably wouldnt hurt them. They eat throughout the day...biscuits, snacks, little bits of roast chicken when we get it, milk is always on tap etc

Polycarp.
That was interesting about your friend who went into Scientology. Even committed christians need to watch what they read.
Ive known some who got caught up in New Age practices, for short times, until they were corrected.

New Age is only Old Age witchcraft practices.
Satan paints up the 'old thing' from time to time and attempts to sell it to a new generation thus the Old Age darkness becomes the New Age 'discovery'...and the young folk get sucked into the Old Age magic stuff.
*It becomes a personal tragedy for many when they realise they have openned a door into the demon world and cant get rid of the spirits and their chatter.

Ive got a good missus. She wont let me get near the grasscutting...hogs it all herself:)

Steel Mann.
I know about Pharmacy.

The successful use of plants in a 'naturopath environment' is primarily unknown to me because I dont know what naturopaths really rely on.

I do see many good uses of plants in modern authorised pharmacy medications. If the governments approve of a medicine and are willing to give out permission for its use I dont have much trouble with it.

I get a bit edgy when I hear of herbalists/brew stirrers etc who add some 'other thing' like a meditation process or a connection to an eastern religion.
We stay far from these practices including accupuncture.

There are rules StG.

The christians have been told in Gods Word to avoid the dark practices of magic and the myriad of things hanging off satanic (now New Age) experimentations.

Anything different, or unusual, switches on or should switch on warning lights in our heads.
The Bible is full of warnings from early on, right up until Revelation about practicing magic, clairvoyance, speaking to spirits, calling up dead folks.
Those things are on the road to hell.

Naturopathy is utter nonsense, it has no scientific basis at all, its only success lies in separating people from their money. "Natural" products can be as dangerous, if misused, as any drug, however they are usually completely ineffective (apart from producing expensive urine).

In my experience, those who deride naturopathy are often those young or fortunate enough to have good health. Or, if they have had problems, they've been of the straightforward type that conventional medicine can help.

When you've had a complete health breakdown, or developed complex and inter-related chronic conditions that doctors have no real answer for, you tend to look a bit deeper for solutions. Many in this situation find the holistic approach of naturopathy does indeed make sense and bring results.

Illness is rarely a random event, though conventional doctors will often give that impression, as in many cases they honestly don't know how to join the dots. A good naturopath will order a comprehensive blood analysis and urine and saliva tests etc and, if experienced and competent as in my experience they mostly are, will build up a complete picture of where the body system is breaking down. Often, the liver and the digestive system are an integral part of the problem, hence the first step frequently being to detoxify the system.

A good naturopath will establish the nutrients the body is deficient in and recommend the right foods and nutritional supplementation to correct the body's chemistry. Some will use herbal and homeopathic solutions, some won't. Over a period of time, results will follow. It mightn't be the quick fix gained by popping a pharmaceutical but, if committed to it, it will provide a sustained solution and one also that will very often prevent other health problems from developing.

Bronwyn,

I'm neither young nor in good health and I still regard naturopathy with derision. One advantage naturopathy has over conventional medicine is that its practitioners are prepared to spend some time listening to their clients, in contrast to the assembly line process of modern medicine. We have to consider the placebo affect here. The solution is to improve the real medical system, not to take refuge in some fantasy of alternative "medicine". Where are the proper scientific trials in support of the efficacy of naturopathy as compared with medicine? All we hear is special pleading from suppliers of naturopathic products for exemption from the rigorous standards applied to pharmaceutical products.

Hi Gibo,
I think you are right to be concerned about your friend’s health when she has been told to only drink water for TWO weeks.
”Detox diet causes woman serious brain damage”
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=40197

The best thing to do if someone needs dietary advice is to talk to a GP or a properly qualified nutritionist.
Any Tom, Dick&Harry who receive training in the form of a short correspondence course from a dubious Health “Institute” can set up practice as a naturopath and claim anything they like.
Staying away from junk food, alcohol and processed foods for a while (as Poly said) etc would be enough to give your body a break to enable it to cleanse itself.

Having said that, I agree with Foxy, Bronwyn and Poly that some natural remedies can really work, such as a range of herbs and let’s not forget Aboriginal bush food and medicine.
Herbs can have healing qualities and cause positive reactions in the body, unlike useless homeopathic ‘remedies’, other snake oils and nonsensical diets based on pseudo-science.
Shame that herbs are probably impossible to regulate and control because of the natural variation in strength and quality between different lots.

Clients/patients always have to look at the practitioners’ qualifications. I was once handed a business card by a ‘natropat’- probably someone who bought a certificate off the Internet and couldn’t even spell her profession.
It’s quite risky that there is hardly any control or regulations when it comes to alternative medicine; it’s too easy an area for quacks to get into and present themselves as professionals.

We also have to keep in mind that, as I wrote elsewhere, all alternative medicine is questionable because as soon as it is proven to work it ceases to be classed as alternative and would be absorbed in the orthodox range of medicine.

Hilarious, TRTL about Jesus fasting!

Mac,
Expensive urine- funny!
You make total sense about the placebo effect.

I've had great success with alternative therapies - reflexology and ayurveda in particular - but I've found naturopathy to be a steaming crock of s--t.

The goal of naturopathy is to achieve the effects of allopathic medicine with natural substances. It's like saying the Sydney Harbour Bridge would be better made of sticks and mud because they're more natural than forged steel.

mac and Celivia

The improvement in health I've achieved under the guidance of a naturopath is very real. Many of the improvements are measurable and have nothing whatever to do with any placebo effect. I've overcome auto-immune disease and fluctuating blood sugar levels which were effecting my mental health. If I'd gone down the path of conventional medicine, I'd be on anti-depressants or some such drug for life. I'm drug free and symptom free. It's a considerable achievement and any suggestion it might all be 'in my head' is way off beam.

Bronwyn,

Who diagnosed the "auto-immune disease and the fluctuating blood sugar levels" and who said that you were "cured", a GP or the naturopath. I'm not trying to be sarky, but it is important that we consider the placebo effect in your case as well( or mine, or anyone's)

Bronwyn,

Is there a regulatory/accreditation system for Naturapaths?

Celivia makes an excellent point about alternative medicine. It is only alternative when it is not considered by the orthodoxy to be mainstream. Many herbs and other natural substances are used in modern day pharmaceuticals but like any substance should always be administered by someone with knowledge and training.

I suspect naturopaths are like doctors, some good some not so and the test is really in the outcome.

Fasting is not unhealthy as others have pointed out - like most behaviours and actions it is about moderation and commonsense.

As for witchraft - there is no such thing - it was a construct of Christianity to punish and in many cases kill those who held a contrary opinion. Many people who were labelled as witches in medieval times were merely herbalists or those who would not bend to the ways of the Roman Church. It beats me why some people still persist in these primitive thoughts. It smacks of extreme religious indocrtrination and ravings which are the realm of madmen.

mac

"Who diagnosed the "auto-immune disease and the fluctuating blood sugar levels" and who said that you were "cured", a GP or the naturopath. I'm not trying to be sarky, but it is important that we consider the placebo effect in your case as well( or mine, or anyone's)"

Both conditions were diagnosed by competent and well-qualified doctors and in both cases the diagnosis was based on the results from QML pathology tests.

The absence of the auto-immune disease has since been verified by several repeats of the same tests and again their interpretation by a qualified doctor.

I have not verified the stabilisation of my blood sugar levels. It's a four-hour test so not something I'd do unless I really had to. I won't but I could detail a long list of symptoms I previously suffered and now don't. I really don't need any test to prove I've made a huge recovery in this area. It would be a waste of my time and QML/government resources to attempt to do so, even though in some ways I'd like to.

I haven't come across you much on OLO, but most people familiar with my posting would I think accept that as a rule I exercise a healthy degree of scepticism on most issues. I'm strongly against blind faith-based acceptance of any dogma, be it religious or as in this case alternative medicine. I always base my assessment on any such issue on hard evidence.

Usual Suspect

"Is there a regulatory/accreditation system for Naturapaths?"

Yes, as far as I know, there is. Private health insurers will only make payments on visits to accredited naturopaths. Last I checked, the insurer I'm with, Australian Unity, had a list of nine such accreditation agencies.

Thanks Celivia.
I passed that site onto my friend. I am sure it will help. Sodium levels are extremely important as are iodine levels (always buy the iodised salt!)

Pelican.
The knowledge of witchcraft that christians have, comes from contact with the dark side of the spirit war.
Christians all through history have done battle with demon powers, actually seeing them and having to rebuke them in the Name of their Lord, Jesus Christ.
Demons are no fairy mythology.
They are real and give testimony satans existance.
Warlocks and witches are real people, considerably gone astray.
They apply incantations and they open doors to audible and visual contact with demons.
In the higher ranks, sacrifice still occurs.
Witchcraft people do not sacrifice to non-existant powers.
One pastor I knew of had stats that showed that after pagan and witchcraft festivals in the US and the UK police recorded an increase in the number of missing person in those areas.
Ive seen demon powers three or four or more times, as have many other born again christians that I know.
Its no imagination.
What it is, is one huge spirit war for the souls of the peoples of earth...and one very dark, evil side that wants to kill everything that it can.

That dark, evil side has done well at getting mankind to kill the creatures of earth for the sake of the love of money.

Anyone who plays with magic... even Harry Potters junior grade magic...has no idea what they are doing.

Gibo says "Christians all through history have done battle with demon powers, actually seeing them and having to rebuke them in the Name of their Lord, Jesus Christ. Demons are no fairy mythology."

Give my regards next time you have to rebuke one of Beelzebub's helpers.

Naturopathy looks pretty sensible compared to a belief in demons. But maybe that's just me?

Johnj.

Its a modern tragedy that todays youth have no experience with conflict against the fallen realm.

All that seems to interest them is the physical... the physical and the material...how to fill the belly with the pleasures of life.

Anything else is mostly closed off to modern youth and they make lifes decisions, from a platform of ignorance.

Many view everything as if all there was... is what they can see.

You youngsters ought to get into the Bible.
Ephesians 6:12 to 18 speaks about the great battle between good and evil when it says..."For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms"...

People die every day and end up in hell because they turned away from the Bibles knowledge...i.e. that there is a Saviour (Jesus Christ) and we have to go to Him on a personal level to avoid the Final Judgment for sin.
Receive Jesus and get set free.

Strange, gibo. You'd think that with this international, ancient spirit-war going on, somebody, somewhere would have snapped a photo of one of these demons.

Or that some of these 'warlocks' would have been sighted. Or that somewhere, somehow, there was a reliable record of such things.
Or that a reputable television station, or a newspaper would have uncovered this conspiracy. Or that people who don't believe in Jesus and god, would have the ability to see these demons too. Or that somewhere, somehow, at some time, somebody would have proved that this wasn't just insane claptrap.

Of course, you can explain this all away with more fairy tales. That's the beauty of fairy tales, you can just keep making them up as you go along.
I've got an inkling that you'll just say they're roolly roolly powerful so they can like, totally hide and stuff and are so magical they can rearrange things or ignore reality when they're uncovered.
(Kind of like you).

So, lets recap:

Which is likelier:

A) A vast international conspiracy of demons, warlocks and witches exist, but only you and other people who share your particular brand of weirdness can see them.

B) Somebody has an overactive imagination and might need medication.

The fact that I can say this, knowing full well that you're capable of rejecting logic and common sense outright, tends to confirm my view that B) is a likelier answer.

I'm not saying this to be harsh, but honestly, can't you see how insane you sound? If you really do believe these things, I can only honestly urge you to seek psychological help.

TRTL.
I havent seen a photo of one but it is mostly an invisible spirit war.
Christians well know of spirits because of contact with these beings.
Max is an old christian friend from country QLD, actually a home church leader, and some years ago his boy had terrible nightmares until Max got sick of it all and asked The Lord to reveal what was going on and The Lord openned his mind up so he could see that a monkey-like creature was outside the boys window after dark causing the boy such bad nightmares. Max was then able to use The Lords Name to rebuke the creature and it left and never returned. Christians who have been around a while dont need photos of demons...many get to see them at their work. Their works are fear, anxiety, ugly dreams, lust and sexual immorality. Alcohol and drugs can open doors to them. Practicing witches and warlocks have no trouble contacting spirits. They do it all the time and end up possessed themselves.
The real sad cases are the simple peoples who have no idea whats going on and have closed their minds to the Bibles description of fallen powers.
Christian bookshops are full of testimonies about demons and possessions and oppressions by the dark powers.
People in 3rd world countries testify to local spirits quite often and how their villiages is bound to submission to them.
Im glad Im me actually.
Without having had contact with such creatures I might have wondered what Jesus was speaking about when His Word says that He cast out spirits from people.
Exorcisms are going on all the time.
People are getting set free... and I think its great!
If Holy Spirit-filled pastors could get into the asylums they could set many free.

*We are going to see a tremendous increase in exorcisms in the years ahead as the dark times approach when the Bibles antichrist rules the world for a period (Revelation 13:16-18/14:9-11).

Satans man is going to connect many people with spirits they will need to get rid of.

Gibo, can you tell us again about the demon that you physically wrestled? You know, what it looked like, how it bit you and all that?

After that, tell us about the UFOs.

Yes pretty please Gibo, I missed that story. Did you actually fight with demons? Sheesh, this thread has turned quite interesting.
Pretty scary to have all these demons all around us. I keep looking over my shoulder.
Can atheists see them, too? I hope not!

I am going to lock myself inside the house and burn sage next time the Sydney New Age festival is on, you'll never know; there must be witches and sky hooks everywhere, no wonder people get kidnapped.

What can one do to protect oneself from these demons, Gibo, wear garlic or something? Or is that only working for vampires?

But Gibo, I wonder why God doesn't just wipe out all the demons and bad spirits.

Gibo, your estimation of my age suggests you have no gift of prophecy. My wife had a good laugh at your reference to me as a "youngster" (sadly, she's not very deferential to my headship status).

You are at least correct in your assumption that I am not a Christian. However, I don't believe it is compulsory for Christians to believe in demons, or at least it isn't among the Christians of my acquaintance. I appreciate that some of your views on spiritual gifts are shared by other pentecostals and charismatics, but speaking in tongues, casting out demons and prophecy look a little strange to the rest of us. Even when compared to naturopathy.

Speaking of prophecy, I have a prophecy about who you are Gibo and where you live. Perhaps you might care to prophesy who I am and we can see whose prophecy is the most accurate?

Anyway...CJ, Celivia, Johnj.

The pentcostals are more than secure in their knowledge of the spirit conflict.
There are many Gifts of The Holy Spirit including "discernment of spirits".
We know the truth about dark powers, because we live it.
Light vs darkness war is going on all around us.
Do any of you really think that all of the conflict in the world today...all of its wars and persecution... is JUST mankind?

Other people, and their thoughts, are nothing compared to the revelation from God about this great spirit war.

Its going to be so terribly hard as the coming days unfold, for so many people, when the events that are going to happen on earth suddenly come together in their minds as being what the Holy Bible spoke about thousands of years ago.

The Signs that we are in the End Times is a real good site.

I recommend it as opposed to personal ignorance of the future.

What the world is really going to have to adapt to... is the loss of all personal plans for the future... as God finalises His Plan for mankind.

Mankind is not going to the stars on a golden star trek journey.

He/she is going into Johns Revelation whether he/she likes it or not:)
I hope you folks are ready when it all starts.

Many Pentecostal churches also practice Witchcraft. Sometimes leaders claim to know something about a person, they call this Word of Knowledge, I call this clarvoyancy. Also most speaking in tongues in most Pentecostal Churches is not done in line with scripture. According to the Bible, In a church service only two or three people should speak in tongues and it must be interpreted. Many times I have been in Pentecostal Churches where the whole congregation is speaking in tongues and there is no interpretation. And all this falling on the floor and rolling around laughing nonsense, where in the Bible does this come from? This led me to leave the Pentecostal Church in 1996, and I returned to the mainstream church. After I did so, I stopped having delusions and was sleeping better at night.

While I now go to a Pentecostal church again, I do not consider myself to be Pentecostal, I just call myself a Christian. The Pentecostal Church I attend has been around for many years. We have a mature pastor and we do not carry on with a lot of the rot that has infested many Pentecostal Churches.

If you are born again you know what the Bible says Steel Mann.
Dont say evil of The Holy Spirit.
If you dont understand Gifts... dont say they are from satan.

No need to be so coy, Gibo. I'll help you out - do you remember this post?

<< Ive been in warfare with evil spirits so many times.
Ive had them smother me in my sleep and been bitten by them.
Ive been in christian churches, not pansy churches with dainty ways when it comes to Christ, but truly alive in The Holy Spirit churches, where hands- were- layed on by committed pastors and elders and the demons screamed as they came out of troubled people.
Ive spoken to so many christians who have knowledge of them I couldnt name them all.
The best work the christian exorcists do today is not in the generally unbelieving western nations but in third world countries where the demon powers control life in whole villages. >>

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1598#30470

Naturopathy seems positively scientific when compared with some of the truly bizarre nonsense you believe in.

Ahhh CJ.
I wasnt being coy.
I knew what I had written.
Its was on record as you showed.
I stand behind it...bold as brass.

Truly bizzare CJ to me is guys like you who have rejected Gods Word to wander off to believe just about everything else the dark side feeds them.

Thanks to all who played a committed part in this thread.
I got quite a bit about it.

I liked Celivias link to "Detox diet causes woman serious brain damage".
I gave it to my friend and she sent it to her naturopath.

Im glad so many here on this thread have actually been into the world of pentecostal christians to see for themselves regarding excorcisms.

Without a genuine life witness to such things... how are any of your guys going to seriously challenge my own experiences?

I guess its easier to sit and type and than go and find out.

Oh thanks for posting that, CJ.
What a hero you are, Gibo, struggling with a scary spirit.

But Gibo is not the only one! I suddenly remembered a podcast I listened to a couple of months ago when it was still available on the ABC net but you can still listen to it if you go to the link below.
Now this is heaps of fun to listen to, I promise!

Gibo, is this the kind of exorcism that you have gone through?

“Exorcism in the afternoon”
http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/2008-11-01-exorcism-in-the-afternoon/12085019/

Listen to the background noises! It sounds like people are being tortured.
These people must be pretty possessed because they come to the church for exorcisms regularly- perhaps every Sunday.

Sheesh I’m so glad to be an atheist, imagine having to go through such demon exorcism every blasted Sunday!

I've never seen a demon, but I've treated lots of schizophrenics who did.

If you are a born again Christian Gibo, you would just answer my questions. I would never say evil of the Holy Spirit. Read I Corinthians 13. It is quite clear there the rules for speaking in tongues.

This falling on the floor and laughing rubbish does not come from the Bible. This originated from false teacher Benny Hinn who has deceived so many Christians. (Benny Hinn once preached in Samoa where he supposedly prayed for a number of people in wheel chairs who got up and walked. When the Video tape made it to a remote village in Samoa, the people in the village laughed. They knew the people who were prayed for and there was nothing wrong with them. Benny Hinn had paid able bodied people to sit in wheel chairs and get up and walk when prayed for. Hardly a miracle).

Gibo, I have met many people like you in the Church. Your experience with demons comes because you dabble in the occult. God protects his people from such harm. The many people I've met like you have one thing in common. They don't work, they are all on invalid pensions, usually because they have mental illnesses. You tell us all about you career as a Police Officer, but you don't tell us where you work now.

When it comes to Naturopathy, two types of people concern me...

People with closed minds that equate it with Tarot or something. Having said that the stereotype of the flaky practitioner with the rip-off cure didn't come from nowhere.

People who will swallow that anything that is 'natural' is good, and that don't apply general common sense to purchasing Naturopathy services and materials that they would otherwise apply in other areas.