War and Peace, Tolstoy,"If evil men can work together why not good men.
We face a future where religion is becoming more of an issue politically.
Gone are the days of the British or more recently the American Empire.
Today it is the religious empires that are more and more entering Politics.
Australians after the First War had to face employment colums that read catholics only or Prodistants only.
Today more and more it is Muslims only or Chistians only.So where is the new spirit.

The spirit is the exclusionism foremost that the occult superstitions of Islam and Christianity preach. The spirit is secondly in the deciet that those who speak on a gods behalf have no god to confirm their words.

West, you're on here sounding like a know-all, bullying standover merchant. Maybe that effect is just due to the unemotional internet medium and if we were speaking personally we'd see your facial expressions, hear your voice-tone and realise that you were just strongly making your point. I wonder!

I used to have a good friend who went around preaching atheism. I once called him the "Fred Nile of atheism", thinking he'd laugh, but he didn't. I was a bit surprised at that.

If you read some of my posts, you will realise that I am a pro-choice person, who claims no particular religious affinity. But being pro-choice, I try to see it from both perspectives. Those with a religious/philosophical/spiritual belief have no proof which could satisfy impartial enquiry. And those apparently committed atheists [I hope that's a satisfactory term] like yourself also have no proof to support their assertions.

You may say that you don't need proof, because your attitude is obviously correct. But that's what those on all sides of a contentious issue often say, isn't it?

In regard to clever people automatically rejecting religious belief. I have a friend who is a Jehovah's Witness. He's a nice guy and so honest in business that, these days, he almost seems impossible. Another friend is a member of Hillsong. He's entrepreneurial, very successful, also honest and straightforward. If you considered doing business with him, you would have no reasonable grounds for complaint. I don't discuss religion with my excellent GP, but I have grounds for thinking that he too believes in God.

I tend to think of those with degrees in theology as really having mythology and/or philosophy qualifications [hopefully comparative], but that's just my opinion, isn't it?

As for those people who allegedly really need psychiatric assistance, church is really like a special interest social group. People join art appreciation societies, rock fan clubs, and become footy supporters for similar reasons. Maybe they all just need a psychiatrist!

And churches, like any other organisation looking for a clientele, need to abide by the law and keep their finances transparent.

Rex I am not preaching Atheism ,I am talking about a cult that is highly exclusionary and seeks to control people. I am talking about a cult that interferes with the lives of those who do not share the same superstitious beliefs. I am talking about a cult which claims moral superiority yet is evil in both motivation, judgement and action. I am talking about a cult which worships death and seeks to forcefully convince others of its ridiculous beliefs to reinforce its self justification for superstition. I am talking about a cult whos beliefs have led to horror, witch burning, crusades, slavery, war, gratuitous laws, rape and torture, violence. I am talking about a cult which seeks political dominance to dictate its immoral and corrupt values onto the larger population. I am talking about a cult which has no proof of god yet claims everything from that gods deeds to that gods actions which means in essence that cult is a cult based on lies.
I am not talkinig about the multitude of beliefs that live and let live, I am not talking about your so called atheist friends who turned out to have been superstitious. I am not talking about the multitudes of Christians that wake up to the lie and become atheist. I am talking about a superstitious cult which seeks to control us.

West I've been considering starting a thread to discuss the line between freedom of religion and freedom from religion.

Is your main concern that people choose to believe in those myths or that they then take that belief and try and force the consequences on those who don't share the belief? BD's approach to gay's living next door being a classic case of the kind of seriously warped thinking which abuse of freedom can lead to -http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=156#3008

Maybe you should start a thread on the topic, it seems to be a major issue for you.

R0bert

R0bert what I am talking about is those who take their belief and try and force the consequences on those who don't share the belief.

I reject the notion in the case of Christianity, Islam , Fascism and Communism that there is a moral grounding in those beliefs and that there is an intrinsict justification for those beliefs to be so called "shared" or recruits or converts sought. If converts are sought the true motivation must be established that is the group wants power.

A master race or salvation or economic equality has to have concrete justifications, in the case of superstition based ideologies proof of the magic must be produced.

I am speaking here of ideology once it is outside of the door, in public , affecting others. Of course I dont care what people think in the privacy of their own mind.

I look foward to your thread.