5% of nothing is nothing.

25% of nothing is nothing.

100% of nothing would do nothing.

We are a non-entity on the world stage when it comes to AGW. Dear Kevin should be tasked by the opposition to state what change in average world temperatures is expected to result from the 12 Billion dollar Extra Tax Slug.

Redistributing wealth once again.

Belly
Rudd is an astute politician - what do you think the conservative right will do in response?

Notwithstanding the politics, it is in everybody's interests to live in a more sustainable way. The problem is determining how we (collectively) do that.

Rudd is upsetting both the hard-line greens and the neo-con right (i.e. damned if he does and damned if he doesn't). This indicates to me he is genuine - we need good leaders to guide us through the difficult times ahead.

One thing is certain, nothing we do will be worth anything unless the big boys come on line. My guess is Obama will overhaul the recalcitrant Bush Administration's environment and climate change policies (leading up to Copenhagen) with China (then India) acting in lockstep - Europe is on its way.

Belly,
It is a mess. The value of the European credits has bottomed
so the incentive for Europeans to save on CO2 has disappeared.
From what I have read we are not going to have tradable credits
so the Russian oligharcs won't have the same interest in us as they
had in the Europeans. They made a killing on indulgences.
CO2 and its effect has been said to follow a logarithmic curve.
It is said by some, and supported by a couple of graphs I have seen
that at the current level of CO2 even doubling CO2 or quadrupling CO2
will have negligible effect on the earths temperature.
In effect it has saturated.
Water vapour and methane are real possible problems, not CO2.
I believe that before we go any further the government should
convene a commission of scientists, both skeptics and convinced,
lock them up in a room and thrash it all out.
There is just too much in the way of reports from quite credible
people to allow us to spend the amount of money we are facing without
having it sorted out once and for all.
The mantra that the science is settled is just plain nonsense. its not !

Did any of the readers here see the ECO program on Foxtel last
Saturday. I switched onto it to see Al Gore in clerical garb in a
church and he was followed by an American preacher here on a global
warming preaching tour.
Now you probably think I am joking or something but I am serious,
it is not a joke, it was true !
Does this mean global warming is now officially a religion ?

Jai "Redistributing wealth once again."

or as I have been describing it, over the past years or so

"Socialism by Stealth"

Regardless of the impact on the ability of Australia to compete, commercially with the rest of the world (who will operate without an artificial carbon tax inpost on everything) and Asutralian business to gainfully employ people -

KRudd, like a moral vampire, is hell bent to feed his sense of righteous arrogance and ego by inflicting these unwarranted tax imposts upon us.

More money for him to buy more votes with and to regulate and interfer in more aspects of our lives.

Don't blame me, I voted for the Coalition.

i wasnt going to re-enter this debate once govt made its decision, but thgought i would show this final link ,on how despoerite those seeking this new tax to rebuild industy really is

http://www.prisonplanet.com/desperate-double-speak-global-cooling-is-part-of-global-warming.html
but the post looks too little for such a huge fraud

so here we go [one last time]

GLOBAL WARMING FRAUD

• IPCC Scientists Caught Producing False Data To Push Global Warming
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ipcc-scientists-caught-producing-false-data-to-push-global-warming.html

• The world has never seen such freezing heat
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

• VIDEO: The Great Global Warming Swindle
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/UsTF3KX-The-Great-Global-Warming-Swindle

• Obama Pushes Carbon Tax Proposal That Would Inflict New Great Depression
http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-pushes-carbon-tax-proposal-that-would-inflict-new-great-depression.html

• Arctic Ice Grows 30 Per Cent In a Year
http://www.prisonplanet.com/arctic-ice-grows-30-per-cent-in-a-year.html

• Get Ready For The Obama “Green Brigades”
http://www.prisonplanet.com/get-ready-for-the-obama-green-brigades.html

• British Kids Encouraged To Become "Climate Cops"
http://www.infowars.net/articles/july2008/280708climatecops.htm

• Record Low Temperatures Hit America
http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-cooling-record-low-temperatures-hit-america.html

• Central Plank Of Global Warming Alarmism Discredited
http://www.infowars.com/?p=1468&cp=6

• No Global Warming Since 1998 As Planet Cools Off
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2008/040408_cools_off.htm

• Globalists Love Global Warming
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2007/280307globalistslove.htm

• Sick And Tired Of Being Lectured By Global Warming Hypocrites
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/270407sickandtired.htm

• In the 1970's, "Global Cooling" Was The New Threat
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/241006_b_Cooling.htm

• The Creeping Fascism of Global Warming Hysteria
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/130207globalwarming.htm

so just pay your tax when your told

i wont explain;how on the sun the'sunspots'are a sign of the suns poleshift

how on a water planet these 'sun'spots became'wierd'weather [surges ,storms,etc] as the poles electrics loop and coil about on one and other]

you all dont need to be knowing the earth moves soon[nothing can stop it]but hey maybe our leaders will use some of that tax-cash to ensure the people survive this poleshifting 'judgment day'

While the hard-liners will be unhappy, Rudd didn't really have any choice but to tread softly softly with emissions targets.

With Australia contributing only 1% (or less) of total global emissions any cuts in emissions we make will be the proverbial drop in the ocean without cooperation from major polluters like China and India and the US. It has to be a global effort for there to be any real effect. Rudd should concentrate his efforts on global unity on this rather than any half-hearted but well intentioned attempts at home. Australia does not have the political or economic influence to just 'lead by example'.

Couple this with the immense pressure from business to move offshore I am not sure he could have done anything differently.

It would be hypocritical to implement a 25% carbon tax and then continue to sell coal offshore.

While we all sit around talking about carbon reduction many other environmental issues are being ignored. No matter what one thinks about climate change there is real evidence that pollution, water contamination, large scale clearing of forests affects the wellbeing of human and animal populations.

Living more sustainability is a worthy goal. Clever countries would look to renewable energies and technology to reduce the dependency on polluting industries.

We sadly lack strategic and innovative policy in the areas of the environment - ones that would include discussions about population, restricting the size of cities (decentralisation), protecting forests and ensuring biodiversity, reducing pollution, better non-polluting public transport options and effective water management. What has happened to the Murray Darling because of the influence of big business like cotton is just criminal.