Belly
'I love a day at the football, a bar b q, good company over a beer or glass of wine.'
You might be surprised that I have more in common with you than you realise. I know that might horrify you.

"Imagine teaching children that every person has dignity and worth and therefore should command the respect of every other person."

Yes, imagine that! To my mind, Foxy, you've captured the essence of this debate perfectly in that one sentence. To me, it's a complete no-brainer. Humanism should permeate the whole curriculum. It shouldn't have to be taught as an add-on.

Ideally, I think philosophy should be taught in all schools, initially as a stand alone, but with the ultimate aim of having philosophical thinking underpin all parts of the curriculum.

I agree with you, Foxy, a renewed humanist emphasis is needed today, more than ever before, to counter the narrow and instrumental emphasis on maths, science, technology and vocational subjects that currently dominates most educational institutions.

"If a religion wants to fund a school, that is fine but no imputting of their POVs."

Ah Meredith, LOL. That's their sole raison d'etre. Why else would they be falling all over themselves to educate our children?

Bronwyn, I meant humanist donations to schools too.

There will be many parents that disagree with humanistic ideals. Just as there are parents against religious ideals. I am not saying humanism is a religion I know it isn’t… but is does function as another belief system along side of religion. Even atheism does

Polycarp wrote:

As for Humanist education? my only question is.. "Can they provide a philosphical basis other than "we should be because... err because.. yeah.. because..."

Dear Polycarp,

Humanism has a philosophic basis which The Council for Secular Humanism states on its web site:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=what&section=main

Secular Humanism is a term which has come into use in the last thirty years to describe a world view with the following elements and principles:

A conviction that dogmas, ideologies and traditions, whether religious, political or social, must be weighed and tested by each individual and not simply accepted on faith.

Commitment to the use of critical reason, factual evidence, and scientific methods of inquiry, rather than faith and mysticism, in seeking solutions to human problems and answers to important human questions.

A primary concern with fulfillment, growth, and creativity for both the individual and humankind in general.

A constant search for objective truth, with the understanding that new knowledge and experience constantly alter our imperfect perception of it.

A concern for this life and a commitment to making it meaningful through better understanding of ourselves, our history, our intellectual and artistic achievements, and the outlooks of those who differ from us.

A search for viable individual, social and political principles of ethical conduct, judging them on their ability to enhance human well-being and individual responsibility.

A conviction that with reason, an open marketplace of ideas, good will, and tolerance, progress can be made in building a better world for ourselves and our children.

The above makes much more sense than using a book containing fairy tales about talking snakes, a psychopathic God who subjects his son to torture and other nonsense as a guide to conduct. Humanism encourages critical thinking and ethical conduct.

May you have a good year and an open mind.

Personally I feel that the sooner they stop brainwashing little
kiddies with nonsense about burning in hell forever, the better off
we will all be. Sadly at present religion still claims the upper
moral ground in schools, be that Christianity, Islam or whatever.

School should more be about teaching kids how to think, rather
then what to think.

There have been some amazing results teaching young kids about
the basics of emotional literacy, conflict resolution skills, etc,
through the Resolving Conflict Creatively Programme. The result
is less social violence, less violence in schools, less violence
in their homes. Some kids even went home and taught mommy and
daddy how to resolve things, when they were having a scrap.

Those kinds of fundamental skills, combined with teaching kids
the basics of ethics, morality, philosophy, the different religions
and beliefs etc, would teach them how to think, not what to think.

That would be far more usefull for both the kids and for society.

The old distinction between education and instruction is apposite here.

In my day we called religious instruction 'religious destruction' - and that was pretty accurate given that the Bible bashers couldn't even control the classes. They were intent upon shoving ideas into children's heads instead of challenging them to think.

I think runner and Gibo must have sat there acquiescently during such classes because they model an inability to think clearly about religion.

A humanist course - if well taught - would do what proper religious education - if well taught - would do: encourage young people to think seriously about how religious claims are made and assessed.