So the Queensland State Government is going to implement "totalitarian" Swimming Pool Fencing Laws, making the various Local Government Councils responsible for their implementation and policing1.....What a crock of crap!

I am sick and tired of these bombastic do-gooders who want to load the responsibilty of errant and careless parents upon the public in general.

We, the taxpayers currently have to pay to enable some of these would-be parents to become pregnant.

We have to pay for the facilities to enable them to give birth.

We have to pay to provide Maternity Leave to the resultant mothers.

We have then to pay to subsidize Childcare to allow these "breeders" to return to work, or laternatively pay to provide Family support payments.

These parents choose to create their offspring,( in a lot of cases to secure a taxpayer funded income,thanks to our bottomless pursed politicians), but at the same time appear NOT to want to have to accept any responsibility for these very same offspring.

It is time that ALL parents were compelled to accept a modicum of care and responsibilty for the children that they have seen fit to bring into this world.....this includes being responsible for where their children are at ALL times.

Children are fascinated and drawn to water, however no amount of fencing and accompanying legislation can remove the risk created by inconsiderate parents who allow their innocent children to be placed at risk, whilst these irresponsible parents are otherwise occupied in some menial pastime!

We have raised four children and at no time was there ever any risk (within reason) of their drowning, simply because as soon as they were upright on two legs they were taught to swim ( staying alive in the water)! This involved our spending time with our children in the water NOT passing the responsibilty to someone else!

(Continued).....

Kneejerk insanity? the laws or your highly biased and unsupportable assertions?

Dearest Cuphandle,
Governments make laws for you.
Just because a few (shall we say, close to governance) decide they want you to pay a little extra for your pool priveleges doesn't mean they own pool fencing businesses.
It just seems that way.
But consider. There's always a loophole.
If you have to fence your swimming pool just go for it.
If you hate those pesky kids so much - a skillfully designed ornamental pool could have hidden traps for the curious unwary.

If I were you I'd consider myself lucky that I live in Qld -
Firstly to have such a considerate gov that they can and do intend to make laws about everything.
But more importantly - Queensland doesn't have feral elephants.
I bet you'd squeal if you found one of those suckers stuck headfirst in your pool early one morning?

I had the local pool police come and advise me a couple of years ago regarding my responsibliity for safety fencing. I had to make a few modifications to comply and thought ... whata crock and basically agree with Cuphandle on this, the state of personal responsibility applies to parents of infants to maintain their off-springs safety, not me.

Mind you I have taken down all the fences now... I had the pool filled in and levelled... the kids are grown and gone.... no more cleaning for me....

I am just so sick of having to be responsible for every twit in the country. I see no reason why I should be charged for inspections, in which I have no interest.

My pool yard is quite large, about 1200 Sq Mt, & doubles as my dogs yard. With 2 moderately large, & reasonably aggressive dogs in there, no kid is going to get into my pool, unless the dogs decide to soak, or wash them, before eating.

As with another subject here, the Darwin award should apply. The gene pool can only be improved by the elimination of some DNA.

One of the things that still surprises me when I read OLO is the sheer callous selfishness of some of our most shrill contributors. So your precious swimming pools are worth risking little kids' lives for? Once again I'm so delighted I don't have bastards like you as neighbours.

Swimming pools generally are water-wasting, polluting blots on the environment. Every year they kill far too many little kids. Yes, many parents need to take more responsibility for their children, but even good parents can't be everywhere at once:

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2008/12/15/28071_hpnews.html

You guys make me sick.

If it's only about pool fencing, pools should be properly fenced. The best and worst of parents can tell you kids move like lightning and do have to be saved from themselves.

In the wider context though, which Cuphandle seems to be talking about, our society has gone hysterical with this 'Please, won't someone think of the children' stuff. Filtering the internet is only an exaggerated version of the same child protection thinking that produces pool fencing.

One of these rules is being made to protect children, the other is being made using child protection as a cover for something else. The common denominator is our society's current willingness to throw the baby out with the bathwater (ha) whenever children are mentioned.

CJ Moron “Once again I'm so delighted I don't have bastards like you as neighbours. . . .

You guys make me sick.”

Maybe the feeling is mutual

Maybe the creative thing to do would be just find another sand pit to play in (perhaps in the middle of a freeway)

Then you would not be troubled

Btw… have no fear, I would move before you came to my neighbourhood….

That is . . . before the property prices collapsed.

Chainsmoker… “Filtering the internet is only an exaggerated version of the same child protection thinking that produces pool fencing.”

Exactly right, just as your vice (taken from your logon) is likewise denied the little ones : - )

My daughter has a small above ground pool that is properly fenced according to council regulations.She lives on acreage and the properties either side of her have large dams with street access,neither of which are fenced.Where is the logic in this.Hit the struggling families with more fees but ignore the obvious dangers of dams.I know it's impossible to watch a child every minute of the day but a lot of these children are drowning because"i turned away for an instant".It takes more than an instant for a child to negotiate the fences,fall into the water and susequently drown.More people need to keep a closer eye on little people near any amount of water.You can drown in a bucket but we don't have those fenced.I am also sick of subsidising other peoples children whilst they go to work or play.Whatever happened to parents taking responsibilty for their own offspring.I am not heartless and do know the grief as i had a son die,in a vehicle accident.Isn't it time people stopped passing the blame onto others.

C J Moran I agree with you.
But those Darwin awards, I dare not nominate any one but at least have put them selves up for it.
To think anyone, yes anyone, would rather a child die than be careful with pool fencing , well it is unbelievable.
Cuphandle your thread is both a knee jerk reaction and if not insane uncaring at least.

I often think of changing my pseudonym, but have grown perversely fond of it.

It actually comes from smoking fish, then chicken, then anything that didn't run away.

It's a lucky thing the little ones aren't allowed share my vice. It's a hard habit to break.

CJ, you poor humourless miserable ratbag lefty twit. You don't make it to bastard, that takes a bit more guts than you will ever muster. Just a lefty twit, that wants to force their will, [superior of course] on everyone else.

My pool is not only fenced, it has an electric fence as well, to stop the dogs digging under it. I told you my dogs are kept in there, councli requirement, they must be contained, as must be my stallion. They can't protect my young foals from there, from the wild dogs that roam the district. The council, & the ratbags don't worry about them, they can't be made to pay rates, or inspection fees. My dogs do, of course keep ANY intruder out of my pool.

The only protection my stock have is me, up all night at some periods, with my shot gun. I'd love to show you some of the stock, ripped to bits, due to these lefty idiot laws, & I make you sick, give me a break.

Like the fee for inspection of enviro toilets. Owners pay every year, but the council has no budget for inspectors. A real lefty act, that one.

Of course there are the 2 dams, & the river, when do you ratbags expect me to fence those. Perhaps you will come a water my neighbours 700 cattle, to protect the kids of course.

Peanut.

I recently did the maths on council rates, & charges. If they keep compounding, as they have for the last 8 years, they will exceed my gross income in 2022, & that's without ant damn fool carbon trading costs added.

Belly, I'm surprised at you, you should know better, & read more carefully.

I'm a non-breeder and I resent my tax being forked over to people who spawn young to gratify their ego and primal instincts.

That said, the OP is ridiculous. "Families receive too many handouts, therefore children shouldn't be protected from drowning". Do people go to the polls and vote using this kind reasoning?

Nice spray Hasbeen - I certainly hope that feel better now, and that you washed your hands afterwards. Given the litany of woes that you relate, it's fascinating that you refer to me as miserable and humourless. I'm not the one with guard dogs and electric fences, whingeing about having to patrol my property with a shotgun.

Look, I agree to some extent about the ever-increasing burden of regulation on many aspects of modern life, and in the current case the proposed fee for mandatory inspections seems outrageous. However, I was responding to the appallingly selfish premise in Cuphandle's original post - as well summarised by Sancho.

I think that it would be much more effective if those who are upset by the proposed new regulations and costs were to voice their opposition in reasonable and logical terms, rather than ranting and raving about "breeders" and "lefties" while displaying callous indifference to the deaths of far too many little kids in domestic swimming pools throughout Australia.

Hasbeen: << I recently did the maths on council rates, & charges. If they keep compounding, as they have for the last 8 years, they will exceed my gross income in 2022 >>

I wouldn't worry too much, old chap. If you keep up your current approach to life you'll undoubtedly have given yourself a stroke or heart attack well before then.

CJMorgan:

I noted the vitriol of your most "menstrual" comments and advise you that I am NOT prepared to enter into the "little girlie" exercise of trading insults and name-calling!

This is an Opinion Forum and we each can have our say without resorting to criticizing one`s paternity!

I wish you well and hope that the nail-holes in your feet and hands heal quickly!

Kneejerk Reaction: (continued from my Original Post!):

This latest act of insanity cannot prevent or lessen the incidence of drowning when parents are NOT in total control of their children, which seems to be a very commonplace situation in today`s society,...just visit any local Shopping Centre or Mall and take note of the number of uncontrolled children running riot in the shopping areas...( and woe betide any parent who smacks their child for being naughty!)

Point of interest Anna Bligh,....are you and your minions going to compel the current owners of Cubbie Station to install a child-proof fence around their monstrous dam? Are you going to insist on a fence around Wivenhoe and all the other dams in Queensland. Are you, while we are at it, going to fence all the rivers, creeks and for good measure all of the ocean front?....You people are a bunch of Knee-jerk reactionaries, who will jump at every opportunity to grab a few extra votes, and whose mentality needs some very serious investigation!

I suppose a lot of people are fed up
with councils raising their rates,
and imposing certain laws on their
constituents that will mean their
being forced to outlay even more money.

That's a perfectly natural resentment.

None of us are keen to part with our hard earned
cash. Especially during tough times.

But, tough times don't last. Tough people do.
And, if these laws mean that careless people will be
forced to take extra care with the fencing of
their pools and thereby possibly saving small children's
lives - perhaps we should look at the bigger
picture after all?

I know it's frustrating that we are being forced
to have to pay for someone else's lack of responsibility.
And it's fair enough to say, "Be responsible for your
own kids." But obviously not everyone is. That's why
the Council is bringing in laws for the good of
the entire community.

And if bringing in these laws will mean saving even
one child's life - won't it be worth it?

That's the decision that each has to make here.
What kind of a community do you want to live in?
The kind where people care about each other?
Or the kind where - people only care about themselves?

I know what kind I would like to live in.

Interesting that the Qld government's swimming pool proposals have the support of the LNP Opposition:

<< The State Opposition says it supports an overhaul of Queensland's pool safety laws, but believes it is long overdue. >>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/15/2446180.htm

The review, and its bipartisan support, may well be prompted by this sort of thing, reported on ABC Local Radio this morning:

<< AN INQUEST into the death of Laidley toddler Hannah Plint has heard the backyard pool in which she drowned and its surrounding fence, built by the property’s former owners, had not been approved by council. >>

http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2008/12/16/girl-drowned-unapproved-pool/

One wonders how such unapproved pools and ineffective fencing might be detected without some kind of inspection.

Kneejerk Insanity it isn't.
In fact - alles ist in ordnung im Qvueenslandt!
Why we cannot have a society where swimming pools owned by the alleged upper crust are situated in cosy enclosed spaces - you know, where children wouldn't usually 'attend' without specific enticemen - I mean invitation from those who, hey hey, specifically wanted them there.

I mean - let's get real. You sorry set that argued amongst yourselves, above, haven't mentioned the recent water crisis, or how certain pool safety installations might also minimise evaporation from your rarely used status symbol.

Your utter disregard for children of your district would once have had even Hitler chewing the carpet and issuing papers against you.

Then your own disregard for your own health goes something like this - this week, five goannas, two cats, a koala, five guinea pigs, oh and that possum. Oh well, another handful of chlorine'll fix that.

Exactly how many fistsful of pool chlorine does it take to absorb the bodily fluids of a drowned child?
I only wish to God that we did have feral elephants roaming the back yards of Kenmore and Indooroopilly.
This society, or what passes for one, has gone past greed and selfishness.
Though, as I said earlier, nothing can be expected of sense and self-determination by the populace, when an even more mindless government continues making laws that do not need be made.

Canute did not ask to be placed before the incoming tide to prove he could halt the tide. He did that to prove that kings too were mortal.
Bligh expects too much. In that at least the squallers above are correct.

Well. Say something to my last you grubs.

I'd especially like to hear from the Premier about this one; inputs from statistics.
If I was lucky enough to be the Queensland Caesar, I'd import one thousand elephants, let them wander the streets of BrisBore and have put to death any householder who let them be drowned in their swimming pools.
Mind you, if Bligh did that there might be another issue about the disappearance of coconuts - with no Christian to blame.

Come on. What is this?
Is there no one out there with a sense of humour or understanding of history - or has Jughead, Teacup, or whatever, driven them elsewhere?

A NON FARMER:

So you want a response from us "grubs" do you?

What about a suggestion that attitudes of people like yourself are
classic reasons why the citizens of Australia are gradually having all their rights and freedoms gradually eliminated, and totalitarian would-be "Politicians" (and that`s using the term loosely) are implementing more ways of bastardizing the community after each and every Election!

You seem to think that an individual is a "grub" for speaking out about an issue that he or she considers to be wrong,....in this case the issue is simply the gradual transferrance and removal of personal responsibility away from parents with regard to the behaviour and resultant safety of their offspring,...MEANING that these same children are now placed "at risk" from the many and varied dangers that exist, and have always existed within the confines of our society!

I reiterate that my wife and I have raised four children ( all now in their fifties ) without any of the modern day pampering and financial
handouts that do little or nothing to instill responsibility in these new generations. Our children were taught to swim very early in life ( swimming is "staying alive in the water") and were educated to the many and varied risks that could threaten their well-being as they progressed through life,.....THIS IS A BASIC RESPONSIBILTY OF SOUND PARENTHOOD!

Children will unfortunately and sadly continue to drown, regardless of the protective measures in place,....this is the fatal attraction of water to a child....the answer is to teach them to SWIM at as young an age as possible, (as is advocated by Lawrie Lawrence), or until that time the parents SHOULD exercise full control and be aware of the exact wherabouts of their offspring at ALL TIMES!

Teaching a child to swim involves some time and input from parents, who themselves in some cases cannot be bothered, thus we have a child or children placed physically and morally "at risk" by the abrogation of that/those parents personal responsibilty in accepting one of their necessities in the life of their children....to learn to swim!

Foxy,

'And if bringing in these laws will mean saving even
one child's life - won't it be worth it?'

In this case. Possibly.

But in general I object to that sort of emotional plea of 'save the children' to argue everything. I'm wondering how far as a society we will go to protect against any risk to children, or any risk at all really. There are many examples where the richness and fullness of life have been scewered by those with an unhealthy attitude to risk.

Like it or not, a lot of things in life that are risky are also fun. A lot of things in life are risky for very few people and fun for very many people. I see a strong trend to always protect the few at the expense of fun for the many. It leads to a sterile, boring, cocooned society who cant accept that death, or fear of death is part of life. I don't want to live in a world where kids aren't allowed to climb trees because it might hurt the tree, or they might fall and hurt themselves.

Why not learn to read?
In 1980 I wrote a treatise to the Royal College of Surgeons that resulted in Queensland motorcyclists having the right to wear black helmets. God knows why I bothered because black fibreglass gets hot in the noon sun!
I used an argument then, mirroring the argument I used in this thread - Reductio ad absurdum. - Go google its meaning, please.

Back then the surgeons insisted they wanted to interfere with the rights of motorists by making a fair proportion of them look like modern traffic cops - flashing lights - day glo vests, you name it.
To sum it up some surgeon dill had a gripe against some biker and wanted to make it stick because he believed he could.
I proved him wrong.

My argument was if some idiot on a Harley wasn't already bloody obvious enough crashing his aggressive way through traffic - then what in hell's chance would a kid, or 'titzwobble the pet poodle' have negotiating the road. Furthermore with all the additional sensory overload - how would the reasonably proficient driver get to see potholes, nails dropped planks and the like in time to avoid them?
In short - if one is stupid enough to regulate society to act like a swarm of Lemmings - then they surely will.
Now I have written, and written again trying to get you lot to read some sense or at least ignite your self interest.
But all is lost. You already act like a swarm of Lemmings!
I'll write to Ms Bligh this weekend and ask for Monday as D-Day.
I understand the 1000 feral elephants will be seeking out suburban pools before Xmas day.

My Dear Cuphandle,
In your last I could hear your pride having survived well and having raised your four.
There are many things I could say about forty to fifty years ago being a better time to raise kids than now.
I happen to know because I was one of them.
I can remember some of the things we had to survive like one or two of your generation plinking at us with the farm self-loading 22. (as it turns out my 'Ging' was more powerful and more accurate.)
Anyway - all strength and long life to you on that score since we both survived
.
It does however amuse me to find your interpretation of my intentions as being in support of the decline of our liberties. There you do have it very wrong.
When one is forced to address corruption in the modern state, then 'one' is usually the loser.
I say this assuming that you too have had enough of the 'bullsh' of mindless further legislation.
God's sake - even Beattie had to run away from that futility - but on the well founded 'Tiberius Principle' chose a successor who inevitably continued the same.
Why don't we get into that issue together?

But perhaps I'm talking over y'r head?
Space is limited so we have to use these slogans - but please let me know.

A NON FARMER:

If you would like to check back over my many and varied submissions to this Forum, you would see that there is a general underlying
indication that I am opposed to any form of increased control over our civil rights and liberties as we are being drawn inexorably toward a totalitarian "Big Brother-1984" (New World Order) type of society!

I cannot and will not gracefully accept that this country has been gradually changed from a situation of being as close to paradise in the 1950`s, to what we are now seeing around us in this so-called "brave new world" where the greed for money and power rules supreme, as each individual is forced, due to economic circumstance, to battle and scheme to obtain his or her niche in life!

We are now witnessing the emerging reality of Capitalism as it suffers it`s own fate of too much for too long, with the ensuing meltdown that no amount of the injection of Monopoly money can
prevent....This has been coming for a long time and the warning lights have been flashing, but the greed-mongers have been blinded by the glinting of the gold bars!

We have recently witnessed a spate of Police shootings, where the offenders have been shot to death! Nobody asks why these so-called guardians of the law are such poor shots that they cannot shoot to wound the offender, however the you may have noticed that the "relatively harmless" Tazers will be phased in for the New Year!
Maybe we should be issuing the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq with these new Tazers to prevent "collateral damage" (the deaths of innocent civilians)?

Thankfully I will NOT be around in another 50 years, and will not have to live like a rat in a cage, devoid of all thought and feeling, save for what is implanted in the brain by our new ever-caring masters of the universe!

From today's ABC News:

<< Qld Govt urged to toughen pool safety laws

A coroner in Toowoomba in south-east Queensland has urged the State Government to go even further with its new pool safety laws.

[...]

Coroner Kay Ryan yesterday handed down her findings into the drowning of two-year-old Hannah Plint at Laidley, west of Ipswich, in October last year.

As well as recommending the Government's measures, Ms Ryan called for the Australian standard for pools, gates and fences to be upgraded to include a child restraint lock.

She also recommended certificates of pool compliance be introduced as a condition of property settlement.

Swim coach Laurie Lawrence says the coroner's findings should form part of a comprehensive strategy to stop toddler drownings. >>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/23/2453400.htm

Cup handle

I am with yourself Morgan, Col and others on this.

It’s all about revenue for the state governments and councils, (jobs for the boys.)... Provide work for the builders etc.

Now here’s an idea. Col Rouge on another thread suggested we take more control ‘ourselves’.

Ok, then why not have a start a system where by the funds raised goes back to the public to erect pools fences of those whom want them.

This would include monies spent on TV advertising costs radio special reports etc.

Personally I resent being forced to destroy the look of my property + pay thousands of dollars because some parents down the street might let their young child trespass.

Interesting you should open this thread now Cup handle. I am keeping an eye on a NSW Council who has changed the zoning of land on a farm I purchased with less people living there now than in 1930.

They are changing it from rural to residential, Umm, considering there is no road rubbish collection sewage water postal one has to wonder what they are up to.

My suspicious mind tells me because there are six or seven new property owners who are buying in this area they think they have found a new way to fund raise for the local council.

The first thing I build was an animal shelter followed by a twelve foot dam. Then erected an above ground pool and carted water from a hundred and fifty ks away to fill it instead of pumping from the creek so as to not upset the farmers.

Then a hot tub from eBay and filled it from the huge water tank I erected.

I have already raised the ‘Permit aspect’ with the council- i.e.

Are you now going to try to come back at me in twelve months and ask where is your permit to build a shelter?- Where is your fencing around your hot tub and swimming pool?
Farmers are exempt from fencing pools if there property is over two hectares.
Oe is that about to change too!?