While many will disagree the senate is a problem, two independents who may have very little support have far too much power.
We seem to have more than a chance both house will be dissolved long before the term ends.
In fact it would be a card most would expect to be played after considering independents actions in the senate.
Will Rudd/ Gilard act if IR reform is blocked?
I hope and believe so, workchoices was a very bad thing and the promise to rebuild IR is one that should be fought for.

The greedy power hungry unions are likely to cause more people to be laid off work by their unreasonable demands. The economies downturn hopefully will reduce the wages of greedy CEO's. Hopefully it will also make people thankful they have a job instead of demanding unreasonable wages from employers. The Teachers and nurses unions are among the biggest whingers despite their wages rising rapidly under the Howard Governments reign.

Come on runner tell me what greedy union got what large wage rise?
Tell me why you think your God would not want a worker to get fair wages.
Lets deal in the threads idea, we have had double dissolution of both house before.
Then both houses sit to pass the bills that bought on the election.
We are going to at least see the threat used, in my view a full election will take place early.
Why?
Well say what you like but the senator for poker machines and dry rivers is lost, few wanted him to have that much power.
Family first can best serve Australia by joining the Democrats on the used to be bench's.
An early election would remove them, we would be better governed by other than two Will Robinson's power hungry but still lost in space.

It is good to have independents in the senate. In fact it is best to have ONLY independents there, so they act more as a random jury, reflecting the views of ordinary Australians, rather than the fixed views of established large parties.

I think that inderpendants are a peverbial 'fly in the ointment'.

They usually come from a very narrow viewed background, green, gay, or strong religious background and get thier own personal agendas mixed up with there purpose, that being to keep the sitting government honnest. Trouble is, they may as well be the government as they have the last say in most cases.

Take that Harradine fellow from Tasmania. The government couldn't do a danmed thing without him sticking his 'one eyed gay, religious view' in. Millions upon millions of tax payers dollars where wasted time and time again because of him. Why should he have been given all that power.

In my view no one should be able to form a party unless they have the smarts and the personel to govern the country. All they do is create confusion at the ballot box.

Let them run in the local elections where they can persue their own agenda directly in the area where they live and leave the running of the country up to the parties that are capable of doing the 'whole' job.

This whole preference thing has become a bit like the NBL pre-season draft if you ask me. I'le give you this if you allow me to do that.

Almost smells like 'price fixing' don't you think?

Rehctub,

What you describe is the current situation where the senate is comprized of nearly-even big parties and only a few independents between.

This will not happen when ALL the senate is comprized of independents.

The ideal is direct-voting of all citizens on every proposal coming from the parliament, but since this is not feasible, short of that, a random mix of elected independents is closest to representing the citizens of Australia. Note that their agendas cannot be just personal - after all, somebody had to vote for them!

I need to post twice this morning, while it would be better to walk around runner as I would a street preacher and pretend he/she is not there I can not.
UNIONS evil! well no not different in any way than bowling club members, the local Masonic club, RSL, even any group of normal people joined together for a common interest.
Our Senate, lets stay close to reality, is controlled by two independents who have far more power than the Australian voters wanted them to have.
A double election bought about by their hard headedness would without doubt remove them, forever.
May I predict the outcome of such an election now?
Remember I truly think we are going to have one.
No independents in the senate after it.
Conservatives have less senators greens have more Labor more.
Lower house Labour clearly increases its majority.
I truly think it is Turnbull, and his soon to be replace deputy, at least Hockey Abbot and a few more that have reduced those polls not the Rudd handout.
Near lies and opposing for the sake of it are not wining friends.
Australia did not vote to install these two egos as our leaders, the senate is not their property, for long.

The SENATE was created to look after the interests of smaller states...

It was NOT mean't to be party political..and if 'parties' in the HofR give weaker people a bit of stick.. then it's just too bad that the SENATE "WORKS" where independants can in fact stand up for a better deal OUTside party structures for small states and interests :) ner.

Rudd wouldn't dare call an election now. Simply put, the economic crisis is at such that an election puts the country into unpredictable territory. Rudd is not a stupid man, no matter what you think of him. He'll just wait and try to get through a very bad economic storm before such a thing would ever be attempted. It is also possible that Rudd is not that serious about the IR law changes. His wife demonstrated that she prefered the Howard system. That is, before she was the PM's wife.

Yes I have an ego, I often think I am right, but it is based on understanding of the subject.
Try to overlook the spelling and grammar mistakes and read my post history, look at the dates that saw me predict out comes like Rudd's win ,before most.
Nothing special in that but I live politics, always have.
Look for my boot print on the rear end of my own party often, you can not understand if you defend wrong just because its your sides wrongs.
Make no mistake.
Rudd would clearly win by calling such an election, in a strange way so too may the resulting flogging help Turnbulls lost tribe.
If ever a time existed for his side to get back on track it is now, crying wolf is not bringing voters to him, its turning them away.
Poly, the senate could have been intended as a strip club, my preference, but it is what it is.
And two no body's are in control.
Who wanted two who have so small a base to have so much power?
Barnaby Joyce he uses his party for the benefit in his mind of those who voted for them, like it or not a admire him for that.
If every senator voted as he/she truly thought we may be better for it but you know if you understand that will never happen

By mid March 2009 talk of a federal election, a double dissolving of both houses will be seen in both Parliament and the Medea.
By years end we may well have had such an election.
One poster said Rudd would not do it because of the international crisis.
I truly think that is a reason to call such an election.
Polls clearly show the opposition is bogged down, talk of Costello serving yet another term, not leaving the house.
With a senate bound to continue obstructing government bills, an opposition not sure who they want to lead them ,no better time exists to call both house to an election, no better reason too.

the current system is totally corupted ,and it is time to rationalise governance[the ideal system would be more along the linbes of us voting for who RUNS which portfolio[actually us voting on who we want to serve which dept[none of this party dealing [or minesters ham strung by errant public service or the party machine [each dept given its budget then INDIVIDUAL's PUTTING FORWARD THEIR PLAN FOR running EACH DEPT

no money to go to anything but govt service[including NOT giving MASSIVE subsidy for medicines [in reality drugs should be nationalised [sickness shouldnt be for proffit[it has become a welfare agency for coorporate proffits

just for stroke medication alone is a billion per year subsidy]and im sure part of the high cost of medicine subsidisation is the very govt policy subsidising drugs often not even curing a thing[but only suppressing the symptom's]

like all that stroke medication has only the same phisiological affect of thc ,widening the arteries[thus the red eyes of the dopers[and the so-called rush[one puff of a joint gives the same affect[and it can be grown anywhere for free]

of course the size of govt depts is rationalised into smaller units[co-orinated via the fully accountable appointee] any monetary expenditure is dispersed via the joint sitting[both houses]party membership is proof of collusion.live broadcast of course

also noted qld will likely go its [single house election] early [maRCH?]I WOULD ABOLISH STATE GOVT[just have local council[overseen by the FED minester who is more in a role publiclly policing of govt moneys and govt service[like an ombudsman]

it sounds too simplistic i know[but the present system is too much like payback for electioneering funding[apparently govt gives return of 100 fold on its 'donations'],but such is what we get when we are run by big buisness millionares , lawyers and a heritical elite public service

While thread thread is empty and sounds like an empty water talk cold and full of echos, it will re surface next year.
A conversation with a member of the federal Parliament highlighted we are going to hear much more about a full early election.
That conversation was not with a Labor member.
With no idea who I was I was informed great progress was expected this coming year by opposing bills in the senate, said to be getting too Rudd.
Lets watch this space, a hint however to my companion, not every one you spoke to at that charity dinner was one of yours.
That bloke in the shirt with his unions name under the pocket? do not rely on his vote!