Last night on that bastion of truth and public information.. "A Current Affair" there was a story about CHEAP MEAT.. direct to you from the farm gate.

Apparently farmers are fed up with the LOWWWW prices they receive for their cattle... and the HIGGGGH prices we all have to pay from Supermarkets for the end product.

The story included interviews with people from this web site/organization
http://www.gippslandleanbeef.com.au/

Their mantra went as follows:

1/ MIDDLE men are ripping us off... marking up by THREE HUNDRED percent from the gate price of the farmer.

2/ WEEEEE (Imagine Brief chorus of Handels Messiah in background) want to put a stop to this and provide quality meat at a MUCH lower price.

3/ Now..we can deliver meat... for TWENTY FIVE percent LESS than the supermarkets charge! myyyy goodness.. are we not magnificent or what?

Now.. surely all of us can see what's going on here.

a) If the MARK UP is 300%
b) We will sell it for 25% less than supermarkets
c) This MEANS the farmers are only 25% less greedy than the supermarkets and its a 275% markup from the farmer to you!

BUT LOOK at some of the amazingly LOW prices! This is not to be missed. (on the SPECIALS section of the web site.)

10kg of sausages for the low low LOWWWWW PRICE of.. just a teensy weensy $145!
hmmmm now..if my maths is right..this makes them $14.50/kg

When was the last time YOU PAID more than $5.00/kg for snags at Safeways?

But what about the 20kg beef pack?

Average price of $15.00/kg

Safeways offers:

Quality/yummy rump steak at $13.00/kg frequently.
Lamb forequarter chops at $6.00/kg.. (very nice)

I'll concede that the Eye Fillet/T-Bone/Scotch Fillet/Porterhouse components of this pack are better than the $28/kg Safeways charge. But looking at the total pack price/kg it seems we are not being offered much at all, as the other components are sky HIGH in price.

Greedy Farmers?

The main reason why meat is not available directly from the farm is due to health standards.

Imagine if a beast had cancer, TB, or was classed as 'unfit for human consumption', yet was sold to you directly from the farm.

This is exactly why they must be processed in a slaughter house, they follow very strict rules and many cattle, sheep and pigs don't make it to the plate and become 'pet food' due to being deemed 'unfit' for human comsumption.

Yes Its True-

Is It David?

Take another look at that web site you put up.

Do I see MLA etc there.

MLA whom strongly support Live Exports and Feed Lots.

See anything down the side. See any pictures of intensive farming
I will give you a hint=

"FEED LOTS"=

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/stories/s105057.htm

http://www.alv.org.au/issues/cattle.php

Low levels of antibiotics may be mixed into the cattle's feed over a long period to help prevent the bloat and acidosis caused by an unnatural diet.

This leads to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, some of which already cause disease in humans.

For example, in the US and Europe humans have caught the antibiotic-resistant, disease-producing Salmonella typhimurium DT104 from cattle. For more information on this point, go to Antibiotics in agriculture .

A feedlot has traditionally been a series of bare paddocks, all filled with cattle. According to the Code of Practice, each animal may be given as little space as 9m2. Even though many feedlots are in hot parts of the country, not all provide shade and shelter.

In 1991 2500 cattle died of heat stroke on the huge Whyalla feedlot near the Queensland-NSW border.

This feedlot now provides shade for its 30,000 cattle. However, the Code of Practice still allows feedlots to be unshaded.

It makes the weak statement: " The provision of shade or alternative means of cooling, such as misters or sprays, may be required and should be considered where the temperature exceeds 30ºC for an annual period of 750 hours " (emphasis added)


So David why dont you and your Church DO SOMETHING to support 100% Free Range and 100% cruelty free like the good lord expects us to.

This is what all Churches and real Christians SHOULD be supporting instead.=
http://www.choice.com.au/viewArticle.aspx?id=105632&catId=100288&tid=100008&p=6&title=Free-range+meat



Why dont you goody two shoes Church Leaders at least try to help us do the lords work.

Who knows he might even reward you by dropping the prices!

Boaz, you really should get out more.

Your TV habits are starting to control your life. One day it's the Happy Days Reunion, now we have A Current Affair.

The reason it is a problem is - apart from the fact that you seem to believe that everything you see on TV is true - that you seem unable to differentiate between the various aspects of the story before you.

The web site advertises organic farming. It has higher prices than factory farming, for a reason.

This is a separate issue from the "cheap meats" people.

Mind you, thanks for reminding me...

>>WEEEEE (Imagine Brief chorus of Handels Messiah in background) want to put a stop to this<<

One of my favourite parts of the Messiah is the Chorus "We, like sheep".

When it is sung, you can't hear the comma.

Farmers have been getting a raw deal from wholesalers and supermarkets for a while, many packing up the farm after many hours of hard labour result in a negative or poor return.

I don't blame the farmers at all for wanting to sell from the farm gate particularly if they are value-adding in terms of organic or biodynamic produce which is more achievable on a small-scale.

Yes a 275% mark up is a bit high if you get rid of the middleman but Poly where did these figures come from? Current Affair is not always accurate with their facts.

But in essence I agree, if you want to combat greed one way NOT to do it is by replacing it with more greed.

Poly, your maths are off.

25% off a 300% markup is not 275%.

If what they mean is that the supermarket sells the product for 4 times the farmers price (ie the markup only is 300%), then they are selling for a 200% markup, or 3 times what the farmers usually get. If they mean that the supermarket sell for 3 times the farmers price, as many people (especially journos) get percentages wrong, then they will be selling for 2.25 times what the supermarkets sell for.

And then are you comparing just meat prices, or grass-fed prices only, as this is what this meat appears to be. These days decent grass-fed beef appears to be a bit more expensive, go to any online butchers shop and have a look.

To me, it looks like these guys are selling in the point of free-range without being too expensive. Good luck to them, but I don;t think they're that much cheaper. But since there are lots of overheads and transport costs to consider, 'greedy' is not a word I would use to describe them.

Polycarp ”This MEANS the farmers are only 25% less greedy than the supermarkets and its a 275% markup from the farmer to you!”

Actually a 300% markup (making a 400% or gate selling price),discounted by 25% (on that 400%) results in a 400 * 75% = 300% price or 200% markup on the gate price for wholesalers.

That is still a pretty hefty markup but not quite as greedy as you stated.

Who cares?

We should all be eating less meat anyway, for our own health's sake and that of the environment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/nov/11/food.climatechange

Feedlots are appalling at every level - not just for the poor animals who spend their last days knee deep in their own excreta, but also for those who work at them and anyone who is unfortunate enough to live nearby or downstream.

Dear Pollycarp,
These are actual costs not he said she said.
1 Beast 2 Y O No adult teath 258 kg x $3.30 = $851.40
2 Killing charge $ 85.58
3 Cutting Fee @ 75cents kg $193.50
4 Cartage $ 38.76

TOTAL $1168.84

Equals $4.53 per kg on body weight.
As you don't get 100% recovery when you cut up a body I do not know the recovery price per kg. This price was current yesterday 09-12-2008.

Bugsy... your post (and Pelicans) seems to investigate the issue more than most, so I'll respond to them.

1/ The information about the mark up, came from one of the blokes in the industry, "Gippsland Meats"...it was not a commentator.

2/ The focus of story and the stated aim of the "Farmers" (in their interviewed words) was:

a) Middle men mark up and mock us. .... 200-300% was mentioned.

b) We are offering CHEAPER meat direct from the farm.

So..if.. repeat IF (Pericles) their focus was on 'ORGANIC' meat.. which it wasn't... then one might understand the price. But they simply used the 'grass fed' thing as a marketing device. They STILL maintained that they were giving us a much better deal than the GREEDY supermarkets who were screwing them at the farm and then screwing US at the shop.

Remember Periscope..they are claiming the mark up is on THEIR meat.
I don't see ANY 'organic' meat for sale in Safeways.

CONTEXT...is everything.

Wednesday..today..Safeways

BUDGET RUMP STEAK... $13.99 KG.. succulent.
PORTERHOUSE STEAK....$13.99 KG.. yet to try.

FARMERS.. $15.50 ish/kg.....

now.. one would think that if there is sooooo MUCH to be saved by dealing direct..... it would actually be cheaper from the farm.

Transport costs? Health issues? Of course.. the SAME applies to Safeways....but why are these dunderheads claiming there is a 300% markUP as IF...it was a rip off?

IF...these costs are real AND as big as being assumed by Plecican, then the only reason the Farmers would mention the 'outrageous' markup is a scandalous marketing ploy to market their product at inflated prices. grrrrr

Oi Bugsy.. please don't pick on my maths :) I only just scraped through in Maths II in forth form where the paper was externally set to make us 'think' :)

Poly, the question of the price of meat is a bit like asking,
how long is a piece of string?

There are many grades, many cuts, many marketing methods. I know
a gourmet butcher who claims that a lamb owes him 350$, no matter
what he paid the farmer. As we saw from Rehctub's figures of
1100$ or so per sq metre of rent, overheads play a huge role.

If you are serious about wanting value for money meat, so buy a
small freezer and buy a side of beef or a lamb, often home delivered
at great value for money, from those without the huge rental overheads.

But when it comes to honesty of marketing, the meat industry
are in fact saints, compared to the religious industry. Order
your meat and it turns up on your doorstep, at a higher or lower
price. Compare that to the hundreds of millions of $ sent to
the religious industry, like tele evangelists, the happy clapper
church and similar, what do people get? Nothing, just a promise.

Perhaps the meat industry could learn from the religious, when
it comes to deviant marketing. I will promise to send you all
the "spiritual meat" that you want and of course the lord will
provide, if you keep sending me your money! All you need is
belief. What a great business plan!

A Current Affair is often used as not much more than cheap advertising space tarted up as 'infotainment'. The whole free-range direct selling thing is a marketing tool. Very similar to other marketing tools like 'buy Australian' or many other 'organic' products that people want to sell. They try and make a moral case for you choosing their product over the competition, regardless of cost. In this case supermarkets are a convenient whipping boy.
It's nothing to froth at the mouth over, it's just marketing.

Yeah, I was picking on your maths but only because you seemed so certain not long ago that you could understand a calculation for the probability of life and then just demonstrated that you couldn't get a simple percentage correct. C'est la vie.

Polycarp ,

As a cattleman I must congratulate the Gippsland Lean Beef outfit. The product looks good and is reasonably priced .

If it's too dear the market will sort them out .

C J Morgan , Although some of us appear to eat too much meat ,I suggest health problems, such as not enough exercise, are a far bigger concern for all ages .

If you are worried about the environment, as hard as cattle can be on certain native plants ,organic open forest or even straight native grassland grazing will support a hell of a lot more wildlife of all classes, than a GM canola crop or irrigated maize surrounded by a haze of chemicals .

It is interesting to see General Motors is now to go ethanol fuelled .This will be a huge environmental problem .

Look out cattle and sheep and there goes your native grasslands/forest paddock out the back that grandpa kept unplowed .

Good beef will always be worth more money .

polycarp,
Believe me there is no such thing as direct from farm. All meat to be sold has to be killed at a licenced abattoir. This means the animal must be transported there and the carcase then taken to a shop or cutting up/ packing premises.

I hope the venture succeeds for them but I have seen butchers go into farming and farmers go into butchers, with the object of making more profit but it does not always work.

The reasons for this are many, but mainly a farm just cannot provide all the requirements that a butcher will require and a butcher will be required to buy in other cuts of meat his customers will request.

I once managed a farm for a butcher and he had to buy in extra rumps and loins from wholesalers or waste a lot of carcases due to the proportion of lower grade meat in each carcase. I can also recall him bringing me whole lambs necks for dog feed because he could not sell them all. So while the theory sounds good, it is not that easy.

What about his requirements of pork and other meats? Will his customers just come to him for beef and lamb?

People are now paying a lot of money for 'free range' eggs and it was recently revealed that the only difference was that 'free range' meant that there were 14 birds per square metre, instead of 18 psm for ordinary eggs.

People like to feel good and marketers do their best to make them feel good.

Richie 10
The expected average yeild is about 67% once the fat and bones have been removed. Therefore your net price now is more like $6.00 per kilo.

To put the record straight on lamb yabby, I only sell 1st grade tasmanian lamb which I buy for $5.20 per kilo whole. They weigh an average of 22 kilos so they cost me $114.40. I don't know where your butcher gets his $350 from!

I sell the very best and charge accordingly. We have the best meat, the friendliest service and I am proud to say that I am the dearest butcher in town As I say, most butchers offer you 'meat specials' whereas I offer 'special meats'.

Rump or T.bone $27/kg, Lamb loin $19, rib fillet $39, mince $14, pork loin $13 and guess what, business is booming.

Just remember, just because you paid top dollar for your vegies, if the meat is no good then the meal is ruined.

The dearest meat you can buy is the meat you can't eat!

Now I'm rambling...sorry!

*They weigh an average of 22 kilos so they cost me $114.40. I don't know where your butcher gets his $350 from!*

You misunderstood the point Rehctub, or perhaps I never made it
clear enough. That is what he tries to sell a lamb for, when
he adds it all up, to cover his costs, margins etc. The actual meat
is only a small part of that. As you know, various cuts can
be value added in various ways. I have yet to see a butcher
waste too much. That is why they sell sausages :)

Dear People...

Specially those who have contributed some facts and figures from their own experience. Rechtub and Richie10 etc... great stuff.

I think this is a clear example of how we can ALL become so much better informed about important issues..when people simply contribute what they know...and don't attack others credibility for the sake of it.

Secular Bishop Pericles and his Deaconess CJ come to mind :)

Well done guys.

My main point was the apparent misinformation that the farmers were engaging in by saying the markup from the 'axis of evil' Supermarkets was so high...and then telling us "they" the "Allies of goodness" (Farmers/Gippsland meats) were going to save us so much.

I don't doubt that the market will sort them out ...if they are overpriced for the target market.. they'll go broke. or reduce their prices.

MY OTHER POINT.... which I was trying to bring out, and as illustrated by Richie10's post... the actual cost/kg for good meat 'can' be very low .. down to $4.00ish a kg..and we are speaking of eye fillet here as well as "shin"/gravy beef I'd say.

HINT.. given that there are huge savings to be made by some cooperative effort... groups of us could band together and approach willing farmers and organize how much of a beast we can accomodate in our freezer, and offer him (the farmer) a much better price than he would get at the saleyards, and all live lest expensively.

"Important issues" Poly? Pull the other one, it doth have bells on.

The premise of this thread is no more than a sewing circle gossip session complaining about advertising and swapping tips on saving on meat purchases.

having been raised on a farm where we kill our own animals for consumption and have a butcher carve them up, we reckon it costs us around $6/kg. Yes Poly, you do then get fillet for $6/kg, but in a whole beast there is about 4 meals of fillet and an awful lot of sausages, gravy beef, osso bucco, corned beef and mince.

Dear Pollycarp,
The price I quote $ 3.30 was the price I recieve when I sell a beast to the meatworks. If some one choses to get that beast slaughtered with others in their family or friends most butchers accomidate them in a private kill which is done to an excelent hygine and legal standard at what ever your local butcher charges for privates. In sydney all food is available as bulk purchases from wholesale outlets. My wife
is very adapt at providing a first class article at low prices.
eg mangoes and lychee in season.

Thanx Richie...and Countrygal for those further helpful contributions.

Bugsy.. is there no pleasing you....ever ?

If I'm not "Bible Bashing..Mozzie Whacking.. or verse quoting".....I'm
now just a sewing circle gossip :)

I think you have some kind of huge chip on your shoulder.. not a good look Buggy.

To be fair Poly, yes it was a refreshing change to get off your Mozzie-bash mindset. But I still reckon you have a weird idea of what constitutes "important". It's a bit of a mix of what is truly important (occasionally), rabble rousings, moral panics and trivial nigglings.

Dear Bugsy.... you should know by now...that a forum like this needs COLORful and ADVENTurous people.. to be interesting.

If we were soaked in 'niceness' all day long it would get pretty boring.

If we are going to make progress with issues which do have high social importance, it should be accepted that people will present a range of views, including the extreme. Sometimes things expressed 'extremely' might be attention getters, and once a discussion is rolling, the issue can be fleshed out and fine tuned with further interaction.

This thread is just a reaction to a few people telling us (not 'reported to say' but actually saying it themselves...ie the Farmers)
That:

a)Supermarkets are the evil ones making huge markups
b)We are the poor buggers at their mercy.
c)We will offer you savings compared to the 'evil' ones.
d)We are the good guys.

When in fact they saved us nothing.. Snags at $14.00 a kg ? they live in cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid.

IF...they had said "in some cases we are more expensive.. quite a bit more, but our product uses better quality meat" I would not have griped..but they didn't.. they said

1/ Our quality is better.
2/ We offer 25% savings.

Point 2 was an outright lie on national TV aimed at promoting their very high cost meat.

All of us now know the potential and method for obtaining true low cost/high quality meat including the prime cuts.

My hope is that small groups of people will now band together and actually approach farmers who are willing to supply them this way and get a much better than gate price, and/or.. people will take advantage of the avenues we all now know of based on the helpful contributions of various knowledgable posters.

They're called co-ops Poly. While I did find the thread somewhat interesting, this is 'important' to the society because?

To All,
I am a farmer and a fisher of men. In this troubled times men thrash about for answers. Principles never change they are set in concrete. Many years ago I had a friend who was a bank manager. A bit of good advice he gave me was stop concentrating on cents and start focusing on $100.00 notes fill the tank and live off the overflow.
God will not be mocked you sow what you reap. If you sow sparingly you reap sparingly. 1 grain produces an ear or cob of grain, the amount you sow controls your harvest, not your wants. The general trend in hard times is to stop sowing, bad choice. Love is not blind, is not a feeling BUT is a decision. Gods order is God first then your family,
then your work the church comes 4 th priotry. Work for your boss as unto Jesus so gain favour with your employee. I have a cousin who is a comitted christian and worked in managment for Orica. As a valued
employee they postponed his retirement for 5years then continued to employ him as a consultant until he reached 65. Ignorance is no excuse
in law. The Best place to sow is into fertile ground in the correct season. Without faith you can never please God. After God your family
is the best place to sow your seed. Because it is your family that picks up the peices when you hit the wall. Not rocket science but without light, truth, and correct principles we stumble around in the dark. The world has a saviour and he is the reason for the season.
Merry Xmas and a prosperous New Year.
From my family and I.
Richie 10

BUGSY..the "importance" was relative to the subject matter.

We won't see the end of civilization as we know it.. (unlike the case of my usual focus) but it's a topical issue which has proven interesting and might even save some folks some money....right?

Richie... wise words mate.. God bless.. just one minor correction :)

"we reap what we sow"...not the other way round. (re-read your last post bro)

100% correct polycarp my mistake, am off to have xmas overseas with
family. God bless

*The main reason why meat is not available directly from the farm is due to health standards.

Imagine if a beast had cancer, TB, or was classed as 'unfit for human consumption', yet was sold to you directly from the farm.

Posted by rehctub, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 6:35:14 AM

Porky

So you will be delighted but of course to know these are the ones going to the ME

Gives true meaning to the words reap what you sew.

If only you had the slightest clue how close we have come to starting a war through live animal exports.

But you just carry on ignoring the barbaric cruelty involved in the live animal trade like most good Church leaders.

SHAME

Pale ,
I haven't quite worked out whether you are for or agin the traditional EXTensive "animals for meat" raising practices where a family of animals exist to produce protein for humans - to infinity, if the feed is about ??

kartiya jim,
Sorry I didnt see your comment Kartiya before now.
No basically we are just a main stream lot of fair minded people supporting RSPCA QLD.
We do not think others have the right to tell the public not to eat meat, or that by doing so it helps animals.
In fact we know that extremists ideas works in reverse for animals.
RSPCA QLD has stated that the humane treatment of animals from farm to plate is a must and we support that.
Oh and we are very outspoken about Church Leaders not leading the way to their members and remaining silent about Cruelty to Animals.

We oppose intensive farms of any kind and lobby for all farms to be free range.
I hope that gives you a better idea.

Thanks for the question and best wishes from pale for 2009.