Hi STG.... I'm guessing you include me in your 'handful of bigots' :)

But don't lose heart.

So.. you claim the Lord Jesus as your Savior? can you help us to understand you and explain what you mean by being 'Christian'?

Does your understanding of your faith position match the experience and example of the early Christians and the teaching of our Lord?

We all err for sure.. me especially, but let's always remember this is just a forum.... we don't get to interact physically unless we arrange it specially. It's only when people meet people that they have a real opportunity to explain their position.

Here...it's keyboard meets keyboard...and it's a battle of ideas.

StG, I've not explored other sites in any depth but one thing that sticks out from what I've seen here is that the moderators try very hard to be light and even handed. Comments get moderated for breaching forum rules not for supporting a particular side of an argument.

The religion thing does get overplayed but those of us who respond to our resident devangelists have a choice to do so or ignore them.

Religion does play a major role in public policy both here and in some other countries. It's a topic worthy of serious debate regardless of how we feel about it's merits or how well we thing the understanding of the faith position of it's christian proponents match's the experience and example of the early Christians and the teaching of Jesus.

Personally I consider the on line behaviour of our most vocal christains to be very much at odds with those criteria but at a guess they hold a different view.

There are some athiests who bother me almost as much as the christian fundies but in the middle there are some really interesting and educational viewpoints. There are other recovered former believers, there are those of different faiths and there are christians who've not turned their faith into a license for hate.

Ignore the obviously religios threads if they bother you but don't get to cut up by them.

R0bert

StG, a little while back I was considering moving on from OLO. It was all looking a bit same old same old.

But now it is great. So what’s made it that much better for me?

1. I'm no longer responding to derogatory comments in the same sort of tone. I either just let them go or attempt to engage the person in a cool, calm, logical and respectful manner. It has taken a while to achieve this, as there is often a strong temptation to give them a solid serving back. It has worked wonders. I get vastly less nasty comment these days, I guess largely because I’m known as one who will not perpetrate that sort of communication.

2. I’ve taken up discussions in some of the areas that I steadfastly avoided for the first couple of years, particularly religious themes. And I’ve introduced my main concerns of sustainability and environmentalism to those discussions. I’ve broadened quite considerably in the subject matter that I get involved with.

3. When things get a little quiet, I start up a new general thread or two to get discussions going that I’m directly interested in. I’m doing this much more frequently now.

4. And as I’ve always done, I just pass over any threads or post that are not of interest without getting bothered by the prevalence of religious comment or whatever.

The only thing that I worry about now is being perhaps a little too obsessive with OLO! Although it can’t be too bad, as I work fulltime, spend a couple of hours exercising almost every day and manage to go bush pretty frequently.

Nice comment there ludwig. A refreshing change from some of the rather bizarre hostility which seemed to be launched.

Although I always try to respond to the comments rather than the poster, occasionally it doesn't go that way. I can admit that sometimes, when writing a post, I wonder what kind of person the poster I'm responding to is.

Although it's simplistic, when all I see from a poster is hatred and bitterness, I do assume they're not a happy person. When they make serious, analytical comment, I do picture a more intelligent individual.
When somebody harps on a single theme, I do think they become a little obsessive, and are more likely a little extreme or unreasonable. Be it evangelism, anti-muslim, anti-feminist, pro-feminist, anti-abortion... you name it. If they're here for just one cause, I really do wonder if they're a balanced person.

In most of the cases, they probably are a balanced person who just has a strong interest. But in some of the cases, they're probably not.

So who do I think are the most interesting posters? The ones who display a little of everything. Some analysis, an occasional light-hearted comment, some more deep thoughts, a little philosophy, a little politics... not necessarily all of the above, but more than just one or two.

That's all I ask from people. If you're into bible-bashing, then fine, but leave it at the door for a few things huh? Discuss something else without having to give people another fix of your particular cause.
Most of the time it's not about (well, okay, it's *partly* about) being anti-or pro-religious.

People just get sick of hearing the same scripts from the same people, with no sign of enlightenment (and I mean that in every sense of the word).

AAaah..the sweet smell of odious insult :)

Robert.. dear Robert.. you were doing well until:....

<..recovered former believers, .... a license for hate.>

I wonder if you reflected on that sentence before writing it...or ?

TRTL generally does well in my view in debating "issues".. but most of you seem to connect the emotion 'hate' with disagreement, particularly when it comes to those of our 'not yet recovered' faith experience, attacking particular beliefs or aspects of one other specific faith/belief system.

This is probably the most fundamental polarization on OLO. Some people are unable to recognize the following:

1/ Some religious faiths, like political doctrines, are absolutely abhorrent. They are especially so to those who are the named TARGET of their odious and hate filled ideas. Highlighting those ideas and doctrines is no worse than exposing the worst aspects of National Socialist foundation doctrines. We don't criticize Hitler for pushing for a 'volks wagen' for all the people...not at all.. it was a great move. We criticize him for various paragraphs in his own writings which targeted a specific race/religion and which resulted in millions of those people being destroyed.

2/ Failure to appreciate this one thing, by those who wish to be known as 'tolerant' explains much of what Ludwig and STg were concerned about.

3/ You have never SEEN a world where the religion that I usually criticize has held total power. (But I've lived under it) The examples where it does hold total sway are hiddeously scary... in that if you folks said in those places the things I often say here.. it would mean execution.

But consider this, you folks can say all you currently do... and insult Christians in the most disturbing manner "recovered believers"..suggesting they have a mental illness or a debilitating disease.... and all people do is "speak" or write at you.

More... the Biblical response is to pray for you, and hope for your own return to faith.

I've been quiet on line lately, partly because I'm very busy. But it's also been a while since I've seen a worthwhile thread to comment on. I see a lot of repetition in many of the posts and feel I have no need to comment on what has already been said.

Religion will always be a topic for debate. That's because it's the one thing that we can never prove either way. As a Christian, I believe in Christ's promise of eternal life by faith. The Athiest is also using faith in denying God's existance, and in denying the possibility of spending eternity in Hell.