Hello everyone,

If you have tried different medications for treating depression and have not tried any considerable success, then you may be suffering from treatment-resistant depression, often called chronic depression or resistant depression. Psychotherapy has been found to be a very good cure for this kind of depression. All the psychotherapy approaches handle a specific issue and for this they employ particular therapy aimed at resolving the specific issue. Cognitive behavior therapy is among the most common types of therapy used for treating depression. Visiting http://www.pillwatch.com/category/major-depression-treatment.html will help you to get more information on this topic. I have found this source to be highly informative.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

im reluctant to reply vbvb

because so much about the topic is about drugging people into submission[based on an arbitory process]

but the'black dog'topic is a relivant one

i have personal witnessed the mental heath act used to abuse
those fighting'the system'.

even the questions asked are all about
conspiricy[is anyone watching you?]
,THAT has many divergent responses[for egsample]

like who isnt watched['monitored'by cameras in main_street[in cash machines etc etc[who's mobile/phone cant be triangulated]who is to say a computer isnt recording your phones every movement?]

who isnt recording your every purchase[listening[for key word]in every phone call[every email[every post]

yes we are all being watched SO WHAT?

it should not nuts
to say'yes'

lest we forget one in 25 of us is certifyably insane

but few have their absurdities revealed to official notice
but that'health'act sure can shut down discent

as for cures[this is too easy]

on the spiritual level avoid distressing things[like scary movies]
avoid angry[fear,hatefull,injurious,revenge filled thoughts[they really do feed on themselves]

think of them
as bringing only more of the same

we are to a great extent what we fear,
or what we chose to react[or inter-react with]

strength comes by knowing evil only has the powewr we give it to have over us[loose the concept,loose the fear]

find enjoyment[not mindless activity[or doing nothing]

usually the object of proper treatment
results in us just getting on with fearlessly living

MANy drug types's certainly should be avoided
but here is the scoop
2 in one hundred dope smokers get phycosis
its 4 in one hundred for non smokers

but hey they[who is they]

they put out the first number
but never the second one[why not?]
it dont fit in with the spin

most of our fears are based on delusion, lies[or spin]
dismiss ALL or any parinoia[it cant help anyone]

live gently and live well

you are fine[there is nothing wrong
[its only their system/drugs that make us believe it is so]

so chuck away the fear
then chuck away their drugs
and just move on

you have one life[its up to you how you CHOSE to live]
continued

yesterday is gone

why bring its fears into this live-time moment
or worse fears about tomorrow

god lives only in this live time [now]
gods live time moment all the time
not in time but only now beyond yesterday/tomorrow]
now/then]

god lives IN live time all the time
live in this live living moment in time
be now with god

where god is [ie right here right now]
evil simply cannot be

pass through the valley of fear
lift up the vile/evil/veil over gods living good presnt time now[hold no judegment]

god is here now

listen to him[that still small GOOD/loving/living voice]
good of god is the only voice you need to obey

any not good is not of god

as god is the only reality
anything not good CANT BE FROM GOD
thus isnt acceptable in gods present reality

so give the bad your god given blessing
and hear gods good loving voice alone
[if its from god its all good

one bit of vile the whole idea is vile
[thus not from good]
[one bit of leaven spoils the whole batch]

dont let fears from yesterdays leavings spoil this live time present moment with god [the all loving living light sustaining all life their lives to live] thus proving he alone is judging no one

anyhow bro thanks for the topic
lets hope others post cures

we got enough negativity as it is[sorry it isnt now
but it perhaps may have been yesterday
[or may be tomorrow[

but cant be is [here now]
as long as you remember 'now '
is where good/god is and ALLWAYS was

in gods real time
all the time [now]
but yet beyond time

KNOW god is good

Dear vbvb,

I feel that a careful
review of someone's history with their
Mental Health provider
would be the best place to start on
deciding what kind of treatment to have.

Getting a thorough re-assessment of their condition
would seem like the first step in what to do.
They may have been wrongly diagnosed. There has to
be checks on their family history, checks for other
medical conditions, thyroid disorders, anxiety disorders,
heart problems, chronic pain, anemia, et cetera.

They must be honest with their
use of alcohol or drugs. Also,
are they under constant stress,
due to financial worries,
marriage problems, work-related situations.
Medication alone won't help in these situations.

Skipping medication doesn't help either.

There are so many factors to consider. Diagnosing Mental
Health problems is not an easy task. The severity of the
depression, how long they've had it, and what treatments
have been tried all play a vital part in guiding any
future treatment.

Excellent summary Foxy

"Medication alone won't help in these situations.

Skipping medication doesn't help either."

Depending on the severity medication may be required but medication alone is insufficient unless the cognitive behaviour is analysed and the patient given new tools to handle the situations that trigger depression or anxiety. As psychologists cannot prescribe medication a combined effort is needed in the beginning where medication is required.

In my case, I have suffered from depression since my teens and can report that the SSRI range of medication made a huge difference to me - previous medication (TCA's) left me in a zombie like state and I stopped taking these despite the insistence of my psychiatrist. Until the development of SSR1's I self medicated with the usual suspects of alcohol and drugs like marijuana and heroin. Somehow I managed not to become addicted and now rely on SSRI treatment to maintain a reasonable level of equilibrium combined with cognitive behaviour therapies, meditation and quite literally consciously changing my traditional thinking patterns; focusing on the good in my life. And avoiding processed and fast foods. While I have not been able to pursue the kind of career my abilities and natural preferences would have lead me to; I do function, I do make a contribution although not how I would've imagined for myself many years ago.

Despite the progress I have made I still need to take medication, have tried to ease off it but it seems I am one of those for whom SSRI's work. For mental illness there is no (and never will be) a one-size fits all treatment. Everyone needs to be evaluated and aided according to their particular circumstances and personality. If this more holistic approach was entrenched and financially support by our health system many people who are currently suffering (often regarded as bludgers, malingerers) could become fully functioning again.

Fractelle,
What the seed article doesn’t mention is, what we both know, depression comes in many flavours, intensities, durations, and causes.
The most common type has event causation (the loss of a loved one etc) this type is often temporary (in the sense it can respond well to standard treatment regimes).
Sadly there is another type often miss-diagnosed (including various forms of Bi-polar),biological based forms which aren’t quite so accommodating.

The biggest day to day problem for chronic sufferers on medication(s) (all variations)is the sense frustration of being trapped in an uncooperative mind with its drug acquired loss of acuity.

There has been some interesting work done that tends to show Bi-Polars tend to be very intelligent. If the sufferer is one such individual the "dulling effect" would emphasise this internal frustration tempting the sufferer to stop medication to regain their true self.

I have this tentative belief that this is because DRUGS TREAT THE SYMPTOM NOT THE CAUSE (short term focus). Consider our predilection for instant fixes… have a head ache, back ache, monthly pains, stressed... take a pill. If one was cynical one could wonder if this symptomatic (on going “cash cow”) approach isn’t deliberately encouraged by drug companies’control of flow private funding of research. One can also wonder at the timings of releases of drugs eg Consider the shutting off of slow release Lithium (to use up existing stocks of the Std product?)

Back to the idea of Psycho therapies I agree that some work for some people and worth a try but…. They are often little better than venting sessions for the chronic sufferers. Again there is a commercial element to this form of treatments.

Try getting “out patient” help for someone at a public hospital is an exercise akin to “the ant moving a rubber tree plant” in the song ‘High Hopes’. Likewise 40 minutes several weeks after an episode doesn’t really help.
Now I've total depressed everyone, the practical news is to seek timely support or intervention not trying to do it solo.

Sites like Pillwatch concern me. They're really just a marketing tool for the big pharmaceutical companies and are no doubt funded by them. They impose as a given that the optional treatment for depression and other illnesses revolves around selecting the best medication.

Medication, as pointed out by examinator, only ever masks the symptoms. It does nothing to address the underlying causes of depression. Environmental factors such as stress and loss can contribute, but essentially depression results from a chemical imbalance within the brain. This explains why many people suffer endogenous depression which dogs them persistently off and on for no apparent reason.

This imbalance can be temporarily altered through drug use, but it can also be corrected nutritionally, which is information the drug companies make sure is well-suppressed. Cognitive behaviour therapy may have some use, but finding a professional who is well-trained and experienced in the nutritional diagnosis and treatment of mental health problems, if you can, is I think the real answer.

I'd lived with depression for most of my life. It was my 'normal', I didn't really know or imagine a different state of mind was possible. It was only when my health status deteriorated markedly a few years back that I started to slowly turn things around. I'd reached the stage of panic attacks and mental instability, which thankfully, along with the depression, is all very much a thing of the past now.

I'm not on medication. I still have to pace myself carefully, but have now basically achieved a very consistent mood state, purely through nutritional supplementation and specific dietary change. It's not without cost, in terms of both time and money, but I'd much prefer my hard-earned cash to be going to suppliers of nutritional food and supplements, than to Big Pharma!

I do think it's very different though once you've already gone well down the medication route, as Fractelle has. You would need very good professional advice, both psychiatric and nutritional, to make the switch. And if, like Fractelle, you've already found a workable equilibrium, it's possibly not worth upsetting it.

Bronwyn, vbvb
If one can get jealous over another’s ability to offer sound perspective I am jealous of Foxy’s skills. A complete medical history review is essential.
Bi-polar and the like tend be genetic and once contracted it is for life. One can perhaps manage the symptoms but rarely the condition. It is always there.
Contrary to vbvb’s enthusiasm for drugs or psycho therapies he is on conditional ground. There is no one size fits all solution for genetic conditions like Bi-Polar (better known as Manic Depression). Neither psychiatry nor drugs can fix genetic flaws except on symptomatic level.

The unspoken consequences of a mental malady are its effects on others.
Patty Duke is a clear example of how it can destroy the suffer’s life and families.
The diagnosis often negates the “for better or worse” marriage commitment.
Even those marriages that survive the sufferer views are often faced with their opinion being discounted with ‘it’s the illness’.
The illness often masks or increases more fundamental stress on relationships e.g. emotionally tip toeing around the sufferer that can lead to loss of spontaneity. When faced with counselling the unafflicted partner can harbour resentments or simply deny that it’s their fault with comments like “well he/she has the mental problem not me”.

My final point is that if cures are over sold (as they are) many non sufferers have the impression that cure is only a matter of pills or psychiatry and can become intolerant, comments like “ Why don’t you take your pills” or “go and see your doctor” all this can and does add to the pain of the sufferer.

Most times the sufferer just wants acceptance, to belong like everyone else.

Thanks Bronwyn & Examinator for your understanding. I have found a sort of equilibrium, but it is far from perfect - I am sure that the medication has had an adverse effect on my creativity, but without the medication I become very edgy and emotional, with it I am able to manage myself - hardly a cure. And still the common perception is that all people with mental illness should do is "pull yourself together" as if we are deliberately making ourselves miserable.

I have also had to increase the medication recently as my liver had become too well adjusted to processing a drug that I have been taking for years.

Another issue is that in the workplace or other organisations there is always the bully who has a built in radar for weakness. I am very good at acting, but on an every day basis anyone into bullying can sooner or later pick up whether someone is more sensitive than others. There are some very disfunctional workplaces out there, as a result I find temping the best solution, but this does not pay well.

Sorry to be so down too - but the topic is about therapy for treatment resistant people. I and many like me cope, most of us survive. And I do find joy in the world around me - trouble is that it doesn't pay the bills.

Love to all.

Fractelle:

"Another issue is that in the workplace or other organisations there is always the bully who has a built in radar for weakness."

Are you sure that the above statement is not the main issue?

examiner:
"Bi-polar and the like tend be genetic and once contracted it is for life."
That is a confusing statement, why not say that genes can be altered by drugs,lifestyle and the like?
Also once genes are altered, they should also be able to repair themselves, so that it is 'for life' is also a fallacy.
If I were in trouble with my mental health (if it was pointed out to me by a 'professional') I would be looking at what am I eating/drinking first, if found to be deficient in anything I would adjust that first, next I try to remember past trauma's and write them down (all of them). Then apply EFT on them..one by one.
You should try it. It cost only a bit of study and is free to all. http://apply-eft.tk
Once you get there, get the free manual which explains every thing.

Eftfnc - before you hand out advice in future, please consider the following:

1. You are quick to judge - a common characteristic of many who do not have full understanding of chronic mental illness.

2. If you had read all posts you would be aware that I and others are very careful about diet.

3. A propensity to Bi-polar is generally thought to be genetic - it may be triggered or exacerbated by drugs or other events.

I suggest YOU read:

http://www.depressionet.com.au/what-is-depression/what-is-depression.html

Which gives a very brief overview which is by no means comprehensive being based solely upon depression and not other illness such as schizophrenia, bi-polar, post traumatic stress and many other conditions.

As a qualified mental health nurse I have grave concerns about the pillwatch web-site. People need to be very careful about sites like this.

kalweb

eftfnc
EFT fits in well with all the other metaphysical New Age mumbo-jumbo.

Fractelle,
Lets just say I more than just understand your situation.Hmmmmm ?
;-)

Dear Fractelle,

I think I've told you this before, but
here it is again:

You're one classy lady!

But, even more than that.

You've got strength of character.

I admire you so much.

You've been one of the joys for me, posting
on this Forum.

So, Dear Heart, you take care
of yourself because you're very, very, special!

So much courage from some of the posters.

The issue with depression and mental illness is that it is nigh impossible for a non-sufferer to imagine that it is possible to NOT have control over one's moods/thinking.

During a period in my life when I was trying to beget a baby that just wouldn't happen and was put on some medication to ripen a whole bunch of eggs, I went on a minor form on 'mental' illness. It was the most frightening and disconcerting experience that I had no control over myself, my feelings, moods and consequently thoughts. It was not an issue of 'just snapping out of it' or 'talking it through'. It gave me a tiny taste of what some suffer continuously.

We can accept that a person is a diabetic and doesn't make the insulin to cope with the sugar in an ordinary everyday diet. We don't say: 'Oh get a grip, what kind of attention seeking are you into, you can't just up and go for a snack whenever you feel like it.' No way will anybody risk having to deal with a hypoglycaemic coma.

But just like with diabetes, mental illness also is not a case of one size fits all. It often takes quite a while to work out the best combination of medication, diet and lifestyle and counselling for each individual.

Anansi - your analogy to diabetes is apt.Its taken me since the age of twelve until recently to learn really to accept the fact that bi-polarism is for life. And yep. Like others, I've tried everything along the way - diet, excercise,psychologists, psychiatrists, counsellors, ganga, suicide, umpteen different medications.

Taking a tablet every day seems like such a little thing to do - no-one questions a diabetic who takes daily medication. But for some reason the majority of people are forever colluding in trying to get one to "get off the meds". I truly appreciate that there is so much more public discussion about mental illness now than there used to be, and that its good to share different things. But, as so many people have said, there's no one size fits all way to go about it.

So many advocate going without medication that one often feels like a complete loser for taking it. When this is added to the natural loser-feeling about being a defective unit anyway...and then one goes into a high or low (no medication can stop the swings, the best it does - if you don't want to be one of the Living Dead - is to tamp them down) and, not unnaturally, the medication stops.

There is a very high rate of suicide amongst those who are bi-polar...and it usually occurs after one has gone off treatment. When you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic anyway, keeping on that wretched little pill is incredibly difficult - one so wants to be "normal" - that the slightest hint of a 'new' way of coping is enough to send some people off the meds and spiralling down into that familiar place where hope no longer exists.

Like the mental health professional who, earlier on, expressed reservations, I welcome forums like this which allow people to de-mystify mental illness, but have reservations about any recommendations which do not loudly, firmly and convincingly advocate lengthy discussion of such with ones health care providers, extensive research and much re-education.

So many people to acknowledge and thank and so few words permitted.

Foxy - your post was a much needed boost - can you bottle that?

Examinator - always thoughtful

Celivia - EFT deserves what s/he gets

Anansi - best analogy yet - diabetes. We look completely normal (well maybe not first thing in the morning) but unlike a broken leg or massive boils there is nothing to indicate the fact of mental illness.

Romany - I really know where you have been - we may be on different continents but our lives have crossed paths.

Kalweb - I remain sceptical too - your advice is heeded and comes from a solid medical background.

There is still way too much misunderstanding - particularly in the workplace; does one advise a prospective employer that one has a mental disability - risking losing the job or being treated differently or keep to oneself hoping that no episodes will be triggered? For example, after working ten years in Human Services working with homeless and often ill people, I no longer can handle highly stressful situations. It wasn't so much the unfortunate people I tried to help, it was the lack of support from management. The basis on which our performances were evaluated, not reflecting the reality of the day to day issues faced, but all about statistics. Clearly, staying away from stressful jobs is a must - but I can't put on my resume can't handle difficult people - makes me look like a wimp, which I am not.

This Dilbert cartoon aptly sums up dealing with bullies in the workplace and all the help one can expect from HR.

http://www.dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/30000/2000/700/32784/32784.strip.gif

In the face of everything humour wins out every time.

Love to all, even EFTfnc.

:-D

Romany

I appreciate your honest and courageous posting. As with others' before you, it contains sound advice based on the hard fought road of personal experience and is sure to be of much value to those who find themselves in similar circumstances.

"I welcome forums like this which allow people to de-mystify mental illness.."

I agree. It is the very reason I continue to speak up as I do, even though I often wear a fair bit of criticism for doing so.

"..but have reservations about any recommendations which do not loudly, firmly and convincingly advocate lengthy discussion of such with ones health care providers, extensive research and much re-education."

Again, I totally agree. I sense that you, and others here though, place my recommendations in the same camp as those of which you have reservations! That is your perfect right, but being the persistent creature I can be at times, I'm going to persevere! For two reasons - firstly, because I care, and, secondly, because I would like to gain some traction for a viewpoint which is frequently, and I believe quite wrongly, treated dismissively.

"Like others, I've tried everything along the way - diet, excercise, psychologists, psychiatrists, counsellors, ganga, suicide, umpteen different medications."

In the aim of furthering the debate, I'd be interested to know what you meant when you said you've tried 'diet'. I know this sounds intrusive and I will understand if you tell me where to get off! But, I've found from past experience that many people who say they've tried 'diet' and found it made little difference, really didn't persevere and take it nearly far enough for it to be truly effective.

Hey Bronny,

No, of course you're not being intrusive - its a forum for discussion and I volunteered info.

After the first suicide attempt at the age of 20 I was fortunate enough to come in contact with a wonderful doctor. With him we explored a completely different (and, to me at the time, radical!)dietary scheme which changed my eating patterns for life: pulses, grains, no artificial colouring and flavourings, certain raw fruits and vegetables.

When the book "Why M.E.?" came out, I was doing a lot of research and publishing articles concerning Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Many people reported significant improvement with the adoption of the eating patterns published there. I myself followed it for around 3 years.

About ten years ago a lot of information was published as the result of clinical trials on the effect of diet - and supplements - on sufferers of chronic depression. I was doing a lot of work with Mental Health then and observed how this regime helped many. I tried it and, after about three years, first slowed and then stopped my medication.

Eighteen months later I was psychotic.

Clawing my way back to sanity was horrendous.

I have no doubt that what we put into our bodies - especially in these days of mass produced foodstuffs - effects us. The ongoing trials with schoolchildren who have been diagnosed as ADD or ADHD are proof of this.

However, for bi-polarism - or at least for me - that one little pill each day is necessary and, though its taken a lifetime, I have now come to accept it.

Romany

Sorry for my non reply! Between work, C/mas and OLO gremlins I just haven't got round to posting much this last week.

You didn't give me a lot to go on, but from what you've told me my feeling is that, yes, you made a great start but like I thought didn't take it far enough for it to be truly effective. Having said that, I don't really have enough information to know whether or not I'm talking through my hat, which I most probably am!

I'm sure we'll get to revisit these ideas again on another thread sometime. Meanwhile, take care, and keep those wonderful posts of yours floating across the seas from China won't you!