If Capitalism is so gloriously successful, why do we keep socialising it's losses? If the shareholders plus the consumers can't support the industry, why burden the taxpayers with it?

Let "the market" sort it out.

If they can't make an affordable product that people want to buy, then it's time for them to go.

If it means fewer cars or fundamental changes to how society works, then so be it.

The US Congress has rejected the bail-out package,
and requested a detailed program for the future,
justifying the car industry's request for a bail
out.

It appears that the car-industry is subservient to
the big oil companies and is either not able or
unwilling to tackle alternative energy sources.

I believe the US Congress is expecting a reasonable
response in the energy-efficiency direction before
it will vote for the second time whether or not they
support a bail-out of the car industry.

It has been short-sighted of the car industry for
decades in persisting to humour the oil companies.

As a result in today's economic-crunch the car
industry is paying the penalty, not the oil companies.

Foxy,
You are as usual right.
I would add the big 3's reticence it two fold.
Return on capital and the associated cash cow mentality.
And being able to gain money for large scale research into alternative power sources.
Lenders are unwilling to be pioneers unless the interest rates are exorbitant.
Venture capital often places draconian caveats on such investments e.g. joint ownership etc.
The big 3 would try to isolate risky R&D financially from the parent company for the above reasons.
If the truth be known much of the money to the 3 probably emanates from Petro $.
I doubt that it’s as conspiratorial as it’s painted more like people lending to their advantage.

Ps your stats on the profiteering question is getting a bit of flak do you have a source doc.

Smile people will go nuts wondering what you’re up to :-)

Dear examinator,

I thought I gave the website to the
"Food is for Eating, Not Profiteering,"
article by Heather Pilatic.

All the stats are there.

Anyway, its:

http://www.panna.org/mag/fall2008/hunger/world-food-system

You know, I had to go back & check the topic a couple of times.

It was hard to believe it was not the 1970, & I was watching the stupid process that went on with British Leyland. Bailout, nationalise, privatise, & bailout again, with the slide to extinction.

Through out all that whole fiasco, dozens, who did not have the skill to run a school tuckshop, got their input into how to run a car co. I see lots here have the same belief in their ability, with no more reason, that I can see. That company was in heaps of trouble, because it had been used as an instrument of social policy for more than 15 years.

Between big government, & big unions, Leyland had no chance, the bailouts just extended the time frame, giving government more time to spin the story.

The big three have no chance while they carry huge retirement costs, & the US factories of their competitors do not. Any misguided efforts to force green ideals on the cars they produce will just hasten their demise. When the world is ready for such cars, Toyota, & Honda will make them.

Obama will bail the big three out, but not because he believes they can be saved, but to get the failure onto someone else's watch. When GM, & Ford go from Oz, Toyota will have to follow. The component industry will shrink too far for them to stay. Now would be a very good time to get out of the auto component business, but of course, with carbon trading in line, there won't be anywhere else to go. I wonder what it will be like, being the poor white trash of Asia.

The US has this chapter 11 bankruptcy arrangement which will allow
the companies to try and trade out of their troubles.
So I would not bail them out.
Our problem is the Ford and GMH subsidiaries.
Perhaps in the longer term they could be floated off to ever may buy
the shares in the local companies. This could be part of the program
to restructure the parent companies.

Anyone buying the assets of the locals could use them to produce
vehicles that are more suitable for the future.
Another question is could the local companies survive without the
backup of their parents ? They may not survive unless sold off.
It would probably mean the re imposition
of import tariffs. That would be a small price to pay.