So the Industrial Relations Commissioner wants the 457 Temporary Skilled Migrants to be paid Market Rates?

I would now be thinking that this 457 scheme should be completely scrapped if we are to fairly consider the plight of the thousands of people currently employed, who due to the "downturn" are facing redundancy, retrenchment, restructuring and all the other fancy words that mean "the sack"!

Nearly all of these tentative unemployed will be looking for jobs to ensure an income, and the simple economics of placing all of these people on Unemployment or Family Benefits will create another massive burden on an already foundering Federal Treasury system, which is now plunging faster than the last dive of the Titanic!

No doubt all the do-gooders out there in Wally World, who are NOT particularly perturbed about this little ploy of "Migration by Stealth" will be showering accolades upon the perpetrators of this hair-brained scheme, whose sole ambition is to supply a line of cheap labour for the "Paradise Farmers" of this country, whilst not thinking for one moment about the consequences of what the long-term result of the current downturn may eventually bring for the people of Australia!

Why do these people NOT have the guts to ensure that the genuine shortage of labour, if any, is filled by the thousands of unemployed ( or supposedly unemployable, by choice! ) who are sitting back enjoying the benefits provided by the ever dwindling genuine workforce, themselves who are getting sick of supporting bludgers and paying taxes to Governments who are obssessed with throwing their money at every pathetic cause that has a it`s hand out for a share!

It is time to put up the sign on the shores: "We are Full"

Cuphandle, try thinking before ranting, or at least re-read your post. If temp foreign workers were required to be given the same employment conditions (including pay) as Aussie workers, then no employer would be advantaged by hiring the foreign workers first. Particularly when language barriers need to be overcome as well. Some of the problems that have necessitated 457 visa's are:

1. It takes time to re-skill and not everyone is able to do a particular job
2. Labour shortages raise wages beyond sustainable levels, increasing inflation and thus interest rates.
3. Australian's tend not to like particular jobs. There is a big push (and has been for years) towards knowledge workers, forgetting that skilled labour is also required in any economy
4. Australians dont want to live in certain areas of the country, or will pick lifestyle over income (including remaining relatively close to extended family)

There are exceptions to these of course.

One way to encourage the "unemployable" is to cut welfare benefits. However, the problem is that there are some people that genuinely benefit from them. Also if you demote large sections of the population to living in slums, camped along creeks etc, what happens to their children? You forever create two (or more) classes in society. To some extent that is present now, but by forcing into street living or camping, the divide is widened and perhaps unbroachable. I dont like my tax dollars wasted anymore than the next person, but I am able to appreciate some of the long-term dilemmas.

CountryGal there was a scandal in Albury last year when Centro Lavington fired their trolley collectors and hired Sudanese trolley collectors for 3 reasons
the original trolley collectors were intellectually disabled youth who had grown up in the area
the Sudanese didn't look like the locals and didn't know their way around town and where trolleys hide
the Sudanese weren't paid enough to live so St Vincent de Paul had to find them cheap housing, organise basic furniture and help clothe them against the inland cold. As well the charity has to find alternative activities/jobs of teh laid off disabled workers.

If we are really keen to fill seasonal jobs then I suggest that workers should be paid cash, that way dole bludgers could top up their income without losing their meagre benefits, the wages could be lower. It would get the harvest in and give the unemployed a reason to get out of bed as well as some extra money. However the charities and private employment agancies might miss out on some government funding

If you really believe there are a lot of dole bludgers who try hard to be there - can I borrow your rose tinted glasses. Large corporations like Ford, Johns Valves, ANZ, CBA have flagged that there will be an additional 10,000 workers choosing to drop their incomes from $40,000 or $90,000 per annum to $8,000 to bludge on the dole in the coming months. The bank will understand that I can't meet the mortgage repayments and the kids need to learn how other people live. The City of Casey estimates that 90% of wage earners are 2 pay packets away from destitution.

billie, I have difficulty in understanding why a trolley collector is a skilled worker for whom we issue 457 visa's. Wasnt it a case of findong jobs for people that are refugee's, rather than skilled workers? I dont dispute your other points, but just point out that the two are very different things.

I also agree there is a need for a radical rethink. I think you'll find Cuphandle was the one who made the statement about those that choose to be unemployable. Unemployment benefits being cut back on finding a short-term casusal job are one thing - unemployment benefits are calculated on a fortnightly income basis, so if you make $1500 a week for 4 weeks, but then that job ends (its harvest now, so people are facing this decision), you are eligible for unemployment benefits again in week 5 & 6. The real sting is in the loss of family benefits. These are based on a full year income, and a few short spells of high income may be enough to push you back an eligibility level, leaving you with a bill to repay at the end of the year. I'd like to see these treated a similar way to unemployment benefits - if you work one fortnight, you miss out, but if you cant get work the next then you have full eligibility. The cost of putting a roof over the kids heads and feeding them doesnt stop just because you run out of work.

Sorry country girl I rarely find some thing we differ much on but you are wrong here.
Some information on 457,s will help.
Not every employer is evil, some truly look after those who work for them.
Just as some actions of some unions are wrong I hope you can except some bosses are too.
Those trolley pushers existed, they had come in on those visas.
See before the crash, that is what it is, such work was unwanted , workers usually came from the described background.
Even now false names are used by people on social welfare ,fraud, but shamefully our biggest food retailers know under payments and fraud are riff.
Can any one explain why the fresh food people are not flogged as hard as unions for this?
Why pensioners get ,yes they do!$7 an hour cash in hand ?
Why no one finds this dreadful act as horrible as it is?
Come shopping with me tomorrow in the same supper market our last deputy prime minister shopped at meet these victims pushing trolleys.
Or the other giant taking the lowest costs from the very lowest contractors?
We still need to import workers, right now fruit pickers in the NT are needed.
What right have we to use the worlds unemployed as cheap labour?
That have been miss used and had to spend much of their income just to live and put a roof over their heads.
Been made to pay fare to come and to leave,used and miss used.
Some think they have every right to take home wages they earned here fair wages, gee its hard to tell a non unionist how a fair go works.
Would we work in their country's for less than our view of fair wages?
And last face it, we need them we have people who will not work and others who will not do the required work.
We have not trained workers for years we do not have enough skilled workers.

In cases where skilled labour in the agriculture sector cannot be found at home I can understand why it might be necessary to bring in foreign workers.

What is not acceptable is, as Belly, outlined when the clauses within this legislation allow for exploitation of foreign workers.

Labour shortages within particular fields does not mean we should forget our duty of care to those people when they arrive on our shores. We do not have the right to exploit that labour. There have been some horrific stories where migrant workers have been housed in not only unlivable temporary accommodation, but 'rent' taken out of their already low wages as well.

It is all very well to come up with these schemes but without proper implementation and forethought these people are ripe for exploitation by some unscrupulous employers.