This week ABC television had a documentary on Compass, called “God is Green”. Glad somebody noticed.

Most often, religious texts have been misused so as to excuse the accumulation of commodities which nobody needs, and the fact of a profit bearing economy being a cause of inflation, and cause of the depletion of natural resources. Yet it has always been obvious to anybody with any real sense who reads those same religious texts, that to use the words like that, small sections of Bible, or Qur’an, or Vedas etc, need to be placed out of the context of the whole. Those of us with real sense and sensibility about the environment, who have hung in there with learning the ropes of religious ideologies, and worked at reconciling those ideologies with modern science, (rather than attempting to polarise religion and science as a dichotomy or contradictory world views and contradicting philosophies: remember that the first scientists in every culture were always, and without exception, the priests; then consider what priests have to lose, and what there is to gain from reconciling religious experience with science), have been out in the cold of religious infrastructures for too long. Yet out here in the cold, of that, now out-of-date and no longer fashionable, lock out, there was always a very good reason for hanging onto the various religious doctrines in their totality, and the various frame works of social infrastructure which religious has built. Without the religious mainstream supporting reforestation and cutting CFC emissions radically, nobody will be inheriting the Earth.

Nobody can afford not to remember this.

No matter what our politics, and what our religious creed, we have to put the Earth first. Modern science is, at all turns, beginning to prove that the oldest ways, which belong in the traditional and ancient cultures of this world, provide the best clues for what will be able to be scientifically verified in time. When the Church leaders all realise that it is their own fault that scientists are ignoring religious doctrine, then human society will know that the Earth can be saved.

Yes I agree Cuphandle.

It amazes me how many religious folk on OLO continue to call environmentalists 'earth worshippers' and the like or radicals when the very earth that their God/s made is under threat from human activity. Whether it be deforestation, air and water pollution, reduction in biodiversity - these all affect the human race in the long term.

If earth is indeed God's work as some would claim, the lack of respect of his/her work by some is baffling. There seems to be no acceptance of cause and effect and little interest in protecting the earth from long term harm.

It is an issue in which we should be joining forces rather than posturing one position or the other. Greed is not good and the destruction of our earth in its pursuit will only affect the generations to come.

Most of my religious friends do take issues of the environment seriously, and I don't think OLO is truly representative of most Christians or those of other faiths in this respect.

Humans are great problem solvers if we put our minds to it. Lets hope we do before it is too late.

i suppose its the title that disturbs me more than what you posted

few of the greenies [and vegetairians] i have met have belief in god,

sure they lend lip service to creation
,but all [that i have met] are on some ego trip
[and certainly dont believe in turning the other cheek]

how many 'greenies you seen on tv with nimby
[not in my back yard ]
WTWT[with that wind turbine]

i would have prefered a definition of this green buzz word ,
green is not godly ,in the proper xtian sense ,it is just radically in favour of green [fauna over human [being] living ,

many would gladly see the human race culled to 'sustainable levels'[this they would define as a few million]
all naturally working 4 hours a day just for their daily bread

greed is a buzz word too

god isnt green for a start

[he is light][life logus ,logic]
love sustaining life.

but what else can we expect from the media busilly selling us a neo [new]life tax

[based on draining carbon based life into a green collusion ,
just as judism has been highjaked by the zion war star, so has the green been highjaked by the neo con right wing fiananciers [bankers]

they dont tell you that the reserves made into 'national' parks are OWNED by the united nations

[and that in time they set up buisness in it
[and mine out its mineral [and metal resources]

[and thus the bankers]
via the fed reserve systemised banking cartel gives up some air time for the feel of their new global world orders financing under its new veil of ;'green'

[we now are re-financing this green veiled cartel
prior to them getting their new cash cow ; the carbon tax ]

Pelican writes

'Most of my religious friends do take issues of the environment seriously, and I don't think OLO is truly representative of most Christians or those of other faiths in this respect.'

Sounds to me you are making judgements on people you do not even know. The fact some some believers reject the ridiculous predictions and conclusions of some of the gw high priests means very little.

Many Christians I know ride bikes, use limited water and do not overindulge. On the other hand many of the gw high priests make Jimmy Baker's bank account look sick while they fly the world telling people to reduce their carbon emissions. It is the shear hypocrisy mixed with very questionable and often dishonest science that draws the contempt these people deserve.

Any responsible Christian accepts the responsibility of being stewards on this planet. That is why many give generously to the poor and are the first to help at clean up days. People like Tim Flannery deserve the contempt he gets when already numerous of his prophecies have failed.

God isn’t green (or I should say; the god delusion isn’t green). Far from it.

NO major religion is leading us towards a sustainability…which surely has to be the most important thing of all at this point in time (and is surely the absolute cornerstone of ‘greenness’). Every religion appears to be complicit in the continued rapid momentum away from a sustainable and equitable future. If written doctrines aren’t complicit, actions certainly are.

Curaezipirid; “No matter what our politics, and what our religious creed, we have to put the Earth first.”

Yes. Or in a slightly altered form…no matter what our politics, and what our religious creed, we have to put the sacred balance first. That is; where all things human coexist in harmony with our resource base and environment.

I wrote this on the ‘mass delusions’ thread: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8121#126923

Despite numerous requests, including cross-posted reminders, neither runner nor Polycarp have seen fit to address this is. They’ve both done a runner! It seems that the religion vs sustainability issue is just tooo hard to handle!

It really does beg the question; what the hell are religions doing if they aren’t addressing a sustainable future?

Curaezipirid
Apologies I addressed you as Cuphandle. I had been reading an earlier thread by him and his name stuck in my head. :)

runner
I don't know any of the religious folk on OLO personally I am going only by your own words in relation to what you think.

Using negative terminology and nasty comments like "earth worshippers" and "gw high priests" does not serve your argument well. Why not try debating the issue instead of using religious put-downs to denigrate any cause that do not support. It is interesting that you use religious terminology in a negative way as though by comparing other lines of thought with religion it somehow denigrates it. I don't understand that at all from someone like you that purports to be religious.

Pelican

I use religious terms because much of what is 'established as science' by many of these people is actually faith. Evolutionist are the prime example. They know they have absolutely no answers for origins and then claim science backs their hopelessly inept conclusions. As a Christian I am happy that people define my belief as faith. Evolutionist dishonestly hide behind what is a pseudo science (blind faith).

Many environmentalist use very questionable science (blind faith) in trying to scare people into their way of thinking. The very thing they accuse people of faith doing they do themselves. Not to long ago 'scientist' using the same reasoning warned of the devastating effect of global cooling on our planet. Within a very short span of time all their predictions (prophecies) have been shown to be hilarious. Al Gore and Tim Flannery are revered among their followers. They might be nice people but their prophetic lies are clear to see by anyone who is prepared to at least test their ridiculous predictions.

People who ignore the Creator inevitably worship themselves or something else. When people murder the unborn and then want to save the whale you can be sure they are not worshiping their Creator

I agree that it is not helpful to use terms like "gw high priests", and I had to stop and think about what on earth it refers to. My father's boss at the university in Hobart, in 1973-4, had already defined the mathematical modelling of global warming, and is known to be among a set of the first of those ecologists who seemed to realise it simultaneously in many places and warned the world. There are no high priests, only scared scientists, and a few idiots wondering how to make money out of preventing what is caused by too much money making. Not that there might not prove to be sustainable incomes for those who are first to take the plunge into truly sustainable development policies.

And as for God, why of course he is not green, but as surely as he is my witness, I know that when he directed humanity to take care of the birds and the bees, he did not intend for us to bludgeon one another with blaming and using sin as an excuse for over-production, over-consumption, and over-spending on things nobody ever really needed. When we consider God as Green, he can only be as green as he is red, about our care for the environment and all living beings.

Responding to "runner" now, about the matter of how we define faith, and faith versus science. There is a true theological position in which faith is defined as only what we know without a shadow of a doubt. Sort of exactly like science.

There is a definition which harks to the time of Moses, and is held onto by the Christian Followers of John the Baptist in the middle east, but interestingly enough, is also the same as Aboriginal lessons which accompany initiation. A definition of Holy Trinity. Like this:
Father = faith = activity
Son = hope = passive reception
Holy Ghost = love = reconciliation
Further:
Faith of consciousness is freedom
Faith of feeling is weakness
Faith of body is stupidity
Love of consciousness evokes the same in response
Love of feeling evokes the opposite
Love of body depends only on type and polarity
Hope of consciousness is strength
Hope of feeling is slavery
Hope of body is disease

The freedom of faith is the freedom of never being deluded, and science is our best hope in that.

Runner! You cant prove nothing either. Evolution first, and religion came next, and that's the facts jack!

You sit there and whinge and whinge and whinge! your mouth never stops flapping with about your imaginary friend, that no-one on this planet has any idea of its existence.

God is everything that man is! So if you care so much, jump off your computer and go and plant a tree or something!

Isn't that what God would do?I know your against abortion and euthanasia, just try and use what little imagination you have left to see what the worlds going to be like in the next 50 years.

We can make more people if we need them! until world population is back to a more sustainable natural balance, your ideas is going to flood the planet, and you dam know we are at the stress point at this moment.
There are tough decisions to be made, and not all of them are going to be nice.

You should be thanking god for making science, cause you seem to sit in front and use technology's with no problem and you cant even thank the good people of science, for making your life just a little better.

I asked your god four mouths ago if he could help to fix the planet.

I'm still waiting! So! whats a go?:)

EVO

runner
It is interesting that despite overwhelming evidence you would call a belief in the concept of evolution as blind faith as opposed to the adherence to a religious belief despite lack of any evidence as faith. It just goes to show logic does not come into the religious debate but each to his/her own. One thing I will say is at least you are consistent. :)

The main goal we should all be striving for would be ('scuse the cliche') peace and harmony between all men/women. A respect for the right to hold an alternative view even if it does not marry with our own.

I usually watch Compass but missed this particular program. I have no doubt that people of various faiths would treat seriously the wellbeing of our planet. It is afterall vital for mankind.

Peican

'have no doubt that people of various faiths would treat seriously the wellbeing of our planet. It is after all vital for mankind.'

I could not agree more.

Dear Curaezipirid,
I have to disagree with you. God is not green ,he is Love . His also the creator and a jealous God and will allow no other to steal his thunder or change his word . The problem arises when man puts himself first or numero ono.
The correct order is God first , then your family next your work and remember if you don't work you don't eat , then comes the church or helps to others. Self doesn't even get a mention because if you are in Gods will he looks after you. God created man to tend HIS garden and we have userped his property rights and clamed ownership for ourselves and ignored the saviour he provided .
And guess what it is not working and never will no matter how much green we apply. For we are perishing .You can't stop the clock of time , or turn the tide for only God can.