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The Forum > General Discussion > Opinions required regarding matter of FOI

Opinions required regarding matter of FOI

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There is a risk sometimes of being too vocal about an issue which may cause the eyes to glaze over with retorts of 'here we go again'.

This does not mean that the complainant is wrong or right, merely that the repetitive airing of an issue may cause it to lose its 'legitimacy'.

Naturally in cases like these there is a tendency to let strong passions and a sense of justice override all other considerations. I know personally from being involved in another quite different whistleblowing incident that one can, if not careful, become a bit self-obsessed and emotional about a perceived injustice.

This does not mean that Jolanda is incorrect or correct in her assessment of DET and her pursuit of 'justice' as she perceives it.

Nor does it mean that it might be better for her and her family to let bygones be bygones. Children do need to learn that sometimes you don't win and that justice has many faces; and that all relevant parties might claim righteousness for various reasons.

Above all, Jolanda certainly has the right to expect open and transparent dealings with DET. It may come as a surprise, but the government and bureaucrats are not always right and they do not always act with the public's best interest. Particularly if mistakes have been made there is a tendency to cover them up rather than to disclose.

Jolanda (as I see it) is merely asking for assistance in drafting an FOI submission. In fairness, we should probably give her the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by pelican, Friday, 24 October 2008 8:16:30 AM
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Fair enough on the face of it pelican, but in real life, by the time most of us reach adulthood we've realised that dealing with "the system" through the front door achieves squat. Unless you count providing employment for bureaucrats as an achievement.

Random thoughts here, but there are alternative options for the education of gifted kids other than selective schools. The last time I was paying attention, selective schools do have some leeway, so approaching them directly is a possible option. State tests are not the be all and end all of assessment. Lots of schools, public and private, have streaming programmes which can achieve the same ends. These kids will not be at school forever, and if they're as bright as we've been told they are, their universities will be more salient to their life trajectories than their schools. By the time any red tape has been circumnavigated, they will have left school anyway.

Sure, "the system" is user unfriendly. But if your first priority is your kids do you stuff around challenging the system, or do you do whatever it takes to get your kids what they need?
Posted by chainsmoker, Friday, 24 October 2008 9:07:59 PM
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I just finished watching the movie 'We're here to help' which was based on the book 'Be very afraid' written by David Henderson.

For those who saw it, this has to be the worst end of bureacracy - a small-time bureacrat with his nose out of joint with a little bit of power run amok to create a huge snowball effect of injustice and persecution.

chainsmoker, I understand what you are saying. I am one of the bureacrats and know only too well the faults in the system. As well as the bad there are the positive things that I have seen achieved for members of the public over the years.

But there is a problem in confronting the 'system' as you say. Sometimes the best way is to get down dirty and get political or get the media involved. It is the only way to fight a system that is inherently unwieldy, undemocratic and sometimes officious and secretive in nature.

The media loves a good story Jolanda - I would recommend going down that path. Unlike public servants you are not constrained by any code of silence under the Crimes Act or security assessment. If you have the necessary proof, letters and other documentation it might be the only way to go if this fight has gone on for a lengthy period of time.
Posted by pelican, Friday, 24 October 2008 10:21:58 PM
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Thanks you Pelican and Chainsmoker for your replies.

I guess what I need to say first is that I have never stopped trying to find a good environment for my children. At the same time I have fought this fight. It is just that we have four children, one with a physical disability and the public school system only has to accept you in your local Zoned school. Once you have had issues there, and if you get a black mark against your name, no school will take you. We couldn't get our kids in out of area schools even with requests for special consideration because of extenuating circumstances and even on compassionate grounds. The stress it creates as parents is huge. It isn’t easy to tell your kids that nobody wants to protect them, help them or support them, especially when they are kids who are really sensitive and good and they do not have a school to go to.

We couldn't afford to put them all in Private schools in the early days and when the eldest two were at school, we had just started a small business, we had a mortgage, babies/toddlers and we had all the expenses for the under 5's, we also had a child who had an injury at birth and who needed alot of treatment. If we had the MONEY to assist our children we would not have had to continue to try to get access to appropriate schools in the public system. We would have just left. Homeschooling in those days was not an option.

I have tried the media, they are not interested. Everybody thinks the media likes a good story but a story like this they do not care about. I was told many times that they were not focusing on stories of this nature. It seems that there needs to be sex, or drugs, or violence for the media to be interested.
Posted by Jolanda, Saturday, 25 October 2008 9:03:43 AM
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The thing is that when the media doesn’t get involved people think that you do not have a case. When the Ombudsman decides to use his discretion and not investigate people think that you do not have a case. When the Department closes the matter people think that you do not have a case. People do not realize that nobody independent has actually investigated the evidence in ‘your case’.

People talk about mistakes, I work in administration and I know that I can make mistakes. People are human. But there are honest and dishonest mistakes. The system does not seem to ever want to differentiate. How many mistakes is one person allowed to make in relation to one family’s children before questions are required to be asked? IF there was no malice and they were just mistakes and these mistakes are excessive and repeated in nature then surely the ability and competence of this person to lead a Government Department and earn probably $300,000 a year has to be challenged.

I am just doing what I can afford to do and what I can do to make them answer and be held accountable. It is a form of therapy to speak out, otherwise for sure I would go mad as it isn’t easy to be treated like this and not react. A long time ago I realized that I would not get much external support and that is fine. What did shock me was that amount of hostility that I got. I realize that nobody is obligated to assist my family or support my family to fight this battle. I believe and my children and husband believe that these types of fights must be fought for as long as possible so that the next time one of these public servants decides to manipulate, bully, discriminate and hurt that they might think that this person might be another type like 'Challita' and that they will not just accept being treated like dirt and say and do nothing.

Thanks again for those offering direction and support.
Posted by Jolanda, Saturday, 25 October 2008 9:06:44 AM
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Jolanda

I dont have much time to post these days but I saw your thread - again and my blood boiled.

I am one of the many people who gave up my time to help you. Originally I have offered some time at the office to do animal welfare. However the people there said they wanted to help a lady so I thought sure ok why not.

You seem to take pleasure in being the center of attention or something.

All the advise given to you was ignored. If I recall you knocked a offer to meet with A QLD lawyer who had also spent several hours reading your material. Then you posted on another forum site that nobody had ever offered to help you.

I know this because I was there when the call was placed to you.

I also know your own legal team screamed and shouted at you to get out of his office.

I am not posting to you now to waiste my time.

I think there is a very serious issue here- Your kids.

Why on earth the department have not seen the same is beyond me.
These children of yours do need help jusdt not the type you are asking for.

I have kids and one can only begin to feel the awful feling they must have in the pit of their little tummys around examine time and when they have to show mum their reports.

Jolanda even if you have reason to complain all those years ago its time to let the kids forget it.

I honestlty think your in need of treatment and the Government need to kick for ignoring it so long.
Posted by TarynW, Wednesday, 29 October 2008 7:26:58 AM
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