Hi Belly

The ACT election proved to be exactly what everyone thought it would be: a swing away from Labor but most of it going to the Greens. Canberrans I speak to were dissillusioned with the Stanhope Government but did not want to replace it with the equally dubious Liberals. Now the electorate has what it wanted - a non-majority government with the benefit of more checks and balances in the system.

NSW Labor really did need a kick up the behind. The wheelings and dealings in that State is beyond belief for a party that found its roots in advocating for egalitarianism and for workers.

The ALP will survive but it needs to swing the pendulum back to its socialist roots and social justice ideology.

Federal Labor will be fine while the Coalition continues on its merry path towards the extreme Right as long as Labor does not follow far behind on the same journey.

Pelican well said at last some true interest in the thread.
I as most know do not think socialism can get the ALP elected.
Well in truth a new socially concerned path is open for the taking.
Based on my love of the party I am not surprised about the swing in the ACT.
Just between me and you [don't tell any one] I would have only needed the greens how to vote in the ACT or northern territory.
After the debacle in NSW it would have been no different for me here without the blood letting.
We got it wrong so many times after Carr no one should be surprised at by election results.
However we are on the way back , never again in my lifetime will we see such swings away from us.
Turnbull while the best choice is leading his team into the wilderness and it may take a very long time to turn it around.

Belly,
Frankly, I see very little between the two major parties, both have compromised their principles in effort to obtain power. Now days an election win seems to be more about the persona of the leader, state or federal, rather than the parties policies and ideals. We are becoming more Americanised, just watch their election. Whitlam and Hawke came over well as does Rudd. Keating, Latham and a host of others, Lib and Labor did not. Howard was mediocar but won because of a sucession of poor Labor leaders.

If anyone has read the Greens policies, there is nothing practical there, so how they come to get balance of power does not instill a lot of confidence in our system or the rational of electors generally.
I think many people devote too much time to sport and soap operas, rather than consider our future.

So, to answer your question, if Rees comes over better, on TV, than the Lib leader Labor can still win the next NSW election, but like the bloke with the wheelbarrow, he has the job ahead of him.

Personally, Because of their record, I know now I will put Laboe last on my ballot paper.

Banjo your thoughts are shared by many, even I agree with some of them.
But policy's get votes too not just faces.
Rudd has been a breath of fresh air, we needed one.
Latham, Crean, the great Kim Beasley who had trouble selling himself, non could have won for us.
We will wait forever to see Labor return to its roots, it just could not lead to a win in a raffle.
And waiting for the conservatives, well in truth Liberals to return to true Liberalism is going to age us all.
Nationals? dead but not yet buried.
The loss of Port Mac Quarrie proved that.
Labor MUST address its branches.
In fact so too must the conservatives.
They have become private property far too often, machines to put the wrong candidates into Parliament.
I do however agree Labor in NSW has form for middle and high income party hacks trying to undo our history.
Few ALP members in private would not Tell you those fallen heads increased the average IQ of our government by ten points.
We are about 100 mm from the bottom of a very deep well.
We took our fall and have started our climb.
A future leader of our party enters the house next week John Robo.
He must wait however we have a long term one in place right now.

Belly,
I would not argue the internal workings or politics of the ALP with you as I am sure you know far better than me. But if you want an outsiders opinion, I have given it.

In relation to the now importance of the appeal of the leader and decreased importance of party policy. Ask the average person who some of the cabinet members are and see what answers you get. They are hardly known. Unless of course it was a celebrity candidate, which labor seems obsessed with putting forward, rather than a dinkum party member that has earned the candidacy. I mark that against Labor.

As for policies, You seem to be a level headed sort of bloke so I'm almost willing to bet that, if you read the Greens policies, you would shake your head in disbelief as to how they get votes. They have one I agree with, low immigration, but say nothing about that as they rely on Labor preferences to get their Senate/Upper House seats.
That makes them outright hypocrites.

Both major parties have a long way to go to earn my respect. But I am most likely the exception and all will depend on how many, sport and TV loving, electors your leaders can get support from at next election.

Belly,
I have voted for both parties, depending on timing, policies and circumstances. Federally, I was pleased to see the end of Howard, although Rudd has not impressed me too much so far (IMO his puerile one-upmanship of Turnbull's $100,000 deposit guarantee with his own ill-considered unlimited guarantee is bringing / will bring turmoil to Australian financials).

However, my question to you is how anyone could consider voting Labor at the next NSW election when we have endured 13 years of arguably the most indolent, corrupt and criminally incompetent governance of any 1st world democracy.

This is a genuine question...I would really like to know how a voter can be so rusted on so as to ignore all this. My personal feeling is that they MUST go. It is nonsense to suggest that the Libs could be worse...and even if (god forbid) they were, we can vote them out at the next election after the Labor detritus has been purged. That's the beauty of a democracy.

Unfortunately, I think it's only too true that we get the governments we deserve.