I had waited for some one to address this topic but nothing yet so here gos.
The results are just what I expected in fact would have been much worse without the recent blood letting in NSW.
Yes very much worse, a wake up call or the end of the ALP for a while?
I go on record here saying I would have found it hard to vote for the ACT team.
Lets be honest many party members would have too.
NSW? pity a couple more heads did not fall but just maybe we have hit rock bottom.
I speak because I AM ALP to the bone, conference and old wounds will not be forgotten.
Here now 2 years plus out from the election [shame no one will remember my claim] I say we have the man to lead in new directions and will win the 2011 election.
IF another idiot in his under pants does not appear.
And our best thing we have going for us?
An opposition waiting for us to hand it to them.
Remember in 2011 winners are grinner's.
But keep your pants on please.

I did not post this thread to white wash my party.
Every vote we lost was well deserved and the question is have we learned?
It is my view we have, again this leader will get the job done.
ACT? best I stay out of that but I doubt I would vote for my team there.
Last election was won against all odds but we wasted the win, gee do some who betrayed the party understand how it hurt?
In the thread power without pride I laid my pain, even disgust out for all to see but got a bit of hash feedback in real life Why?
My party right or wrong is insanity, no improvement can be made if we do not take the hurt on the chin.
Rees has, he is not stunned by the spotlight as our last leader appeared to be, he will get better results.
Seems imposable? every failure hits the bottom and we have only place we can go is up and again a win in 2011 is on.

Belly,NSW Labor are gone.They should have gone at the last election but the Libs kept on wanting to commit political suicide.Barry O'Farrell still does not really impress me.He lacks passion and does not define a clear vision of where his party wants to go.The Libs will win by default.

The best solution is to eliminate the State Govts and make our councils more accountable.Belly,why would you stick by a corrupt stinking,rotting carcass of NSW Labor?They have reached the lowest ebb in their political history.Only the talentless opportunists would want to fill the putrid void left by these woeful scum.

If they had any honour or conscience,they should all resign in disgrace now and save us the effort waiting another two years to clear the stench from our nostrils.

Yes Belly I think Labor will survive many a year.

My understanding of certain prophecies to the Christian churches of Australia, over the last 25 years or so, is that one day an enemy will take a portion of the land we live in. I think its China.

In the south there will be a change of government over to a communist style of government.

Labor, I believe, will still be alive in those days to greet both the enemy and to make deals with them for the sake of that communist state.

I dont think the Libs will do that.
Their beginnings are somewhat different I recall from the Labor/trade union/communist party connections that we've come to know.

Check out the end statements on the following revelation... if you want?

http://propheticroundtable.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid

Well there goes the chance of debate.
Comrade Gibo you have found me out.
I am holding secrete meetings in the garden shed right now.
In fact mate NSW ALP is controlled by the right, the internal bickering has long ago marginalized the communists.
They could hold their AGM in my garden shed.
Arjay such words, strange some nearly describe at least a few of my party, heads rolled we hit the very bottom weeks ago.
You in your post highlight why we can win.
Who wants Barry?
What are his policy's?
In my view Morris was a mistake he is gone we can move on.
Now I will hold myself accountable for my view we are about to improve.
And you for your over kill, while I too was ashamed of my party you get a little too exited
watch this space.

To answer the Question.."I hope not!" :)

Interesting to note, that the 2 suburbs which are very densely packed with Migrants, are VERY comfortable Labor seats!

What does this tell us about 'Immigration' as a political tool?

I've always maintained that "Immigration" is just one of a number of political tools used by parties to enhance and/or prop up their own power base.

LABOR "Compassionate" immigration + skills based. (Blue collar)

LIBERAL/COALITION "Business" migration "White collar"

GREENS "Refugees/assylum seekers"

CATHOLIC GOVERNMENT OF SABAH MALAYSIA "Immigrants from East Timor" (Catholic)
MUSLIM GOVERNMENT OF SABAH MALAYSIA "Immigrants from southern Philippines" (-Muslims)

I am utterly cynical about ANY political party and immigration.

The Delabosca and (wife) Belinda Neal saga? hah.. did I hear the word "Nepotism" floating around?

GET RID of them... all...so we can have the incredibly squeaky clean, pure and highly moral "Liberal" party in power (choke...cough... splutter)

I wasnt picking on you Belly:)

I was just telling the story as I saw it as a collecter of visions and prophecies from The Christian churches.

Governments will soon go into survival modes as the Bibles endtimes approach.
Conflicts will be everywhere.
Big disasters.

Many in the West will find that the only safe place is in church.

Polycarp your last two posts on politics highlight the fact you lack any real understanding of the subject.
You could well have flogged the NSW ALP on 100 different issues, but you failed totally.
Nepotism? truly you baffle me how? who?
John Dela Bosca is wed to that lady both are politicians.
But nepotism?
Are you as far from facts in your religious preachings?
Gibo, bloke the ALP is not the home of communists!
and if the current membership a the Australian communist party, in fact all its Branch's factions and fellow travelers met in my garden shed they could use the wheel barrow for seating and none would need to stand.
And the idea any party is not ruled by self interest is fantasy.
David look into your mirror ask your self why you fear some migration.
Bet you see no danger in Christian migration.
Every religion tells us they follow the one true God who made us all, and I am yet to find one that has not got bigots within trying to say God did not mean some races.
Constant fears about China being an invader are amusing.

I think, a Sing-Sing.

..

Up there Dear GREENIES!
In there and fight.
Up there and at 'em.
Show 'em yr might.

Up there Dear GREENIES!
Don't let 'em win.

Fly with the Angels.
Yr out there to win.

:-)

P.S.

To who it so concerns,
take that Green Member in yr <snip> and start sucking!
HaHaHa

;-)

Well as a liberal voter for years I must say I am impressed by the job kevin rud is doing. I like the guy, I also liked him before the election.

1 major problem. No team!

I see them as similar to that of the balmain tigers, if bengi marshall is fit, they are a great, almost unbeatable side but, if he is off his game or injured they fold.

Look out if they loose KR.

Ahhh...Belly.
Its all to do with the spirit world.

What gets estabilished by the devil and his spirits may fall, but it then gets re-arranged or re-named with the same goals in mind...i.e. to get people to move away from God, the Holy Bible and the Christian churches.

Communism in Australia hasnt died out...its just been re-shaped.
New men wearing shiny new clothes.

Remember the hare krishnas?
Bald heads, a white blob of paint on the forehead and orange robes.
They are now re-shaped into business suits and hang around airports looking for the unsuspecting.

Labor is still being drawn (by the fallen spirit world) towards China and the old Red flame because this is where the founding fathers of Labor had their early indoctrinations.
They openned their minds to the communist belief through their susceptibility (atheistic weaknesses) and satan got hold.
He still draws Labor over to ungodliness today.

Chen Yonglin says there are over a 1,000 spies here.
How did that happen?

It happened because there were people in positions of power in Australia who allowed it to happen.

A christian friend believers that under Bob Hawke, Defence was allowed to run down 50%.
How did that happen?
Who owned B.Hawke?
Long ago he had rejected his fathers christian teachings.

A good start on the devil can be found at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

Gibo old mate at least you make me laugh.
I have form, once a Christian I also a very long time ago considered myself communist.
First mentioned was in my 30,s second was in my mums milk born poor I fell for the rat bag idea communism could work.
I gave both straws away and learned to live with reality.
In fact within the trade union movement live communisms worst enemy's.
That butcher Stalin knew socialism was his enemy.
Unions that are true socialists are few and isolate them selves from members.
If you are looking for defenders of this country from your China invasion far more of them will come from the union movement that the church.
Rudd is not under threat but if he was?
Look more closely at his team.
Bill Shorten will one day be let shine he is worth watching.
NSW ALP is loaded down with real problems, most of them made by yesterdays men.
We will make ground, we have 2 years to get better the loss of some has improved us already do not write us off.

Hi Belly

The ACT election proved to be exactly what everyone thought it would be: a swing away from Labor but most of it going to the Greens. Canberrans I speak to were dissillusioned with the Stanhope Government but did not want to replace it with the equally dubious Liberals. Now the electorate has what it wanted - a non-majority government with the benefit of more checks and balances in the system.

NSW Labor really did need a kick up the behind. The wheelings and dealings in that State is beyond belief for a party that found its roots in advocating for egalitarianism and for workers.

The ALP will survive but it needs to swing the pendulum back to its socialist roots and social justice ideology.

Federal Labor will be fine while the Coalition continues on its merry path towards the extreme Right as long as Labor does not follow far behind on the same journey.

Pelican well said at last some true interest in the thread.
I as most know do not think socialism can get the ALP elected.
Well in truth a new socially concerned path is open for the taking.
Based on my love of the party I am not surprised about the swing in the ACT.
Just between me and you [don't tell any one] I would have only needed the greens how to vote in the ACT or northern territory.
After the debacle in NSW it would have been no different for me here without the blood letting.
We got it wrong so many times after Carr no one should be surprised at by election results.
However we are on the way back , never again in my lifetime will we see such swings away from us.
Turnbull while the best choice is leading his team into the wilderness and it may take a very long time to turn it around.

Belly,
Frankly, I see very little between the two major parties, both have compromised their principles in effort to obtain power. Now days an election win seems to be more about the persona of the leader, state or federal, rather than the parties policies and ideals. We are becoming more Americanised, just watch their election. Whitlam and Hawke came over well as does Rudd. Keating, Latham and a host of others, Lib and Labor did not. Howard was mediocar but won because of a sucession of poor Labor leaders.

If anyone has read the Greens policies, there is nothing practical there, so how they come to get balance of power does not instill a lot of confidence in our system or the rational of electors generally.
I think many people devote too much time to sport and soap operas, rather than consider our future.

So, to answer your question, if Rees comes over better, on TV, than the Lib leader Labor can still win the next NSW election, but like the bloke with the wheelbarrow, he has the job ahead of him.

Personally, Because of their record, I know now I will put Laboe last on my ballot paper.

Banjo your thoughts are shared by many, even I agree with some of them.
But policy's get votes too not just faces.
Rudd has been a breath of fresh air, we needed one.
Latham, Crean, the great Kim Beasley who had trouble selling himself, non could have won for us.
We will wait forever to see Labor return to its roots, it just could not lead to a win in a raffle.
And waiting for the conservatives, well in truth Liberals to return to true Liberalism is going to age us all.
Nationals? dead but not yet buried.
The loss of Port Mac Quarrie proved that.
Labor MUST address its branches.
In fact so too must the conservatives.
They have become private property far too often, machines to put the wrong candidates into Parliament.
I do however agree Labor in NSW has form for middle and high income party hacks trying to undo our history.
Few ALP members in private would not Tell you those fallen heads increased the average IQ of our government by ten points.
We are about 100 mm from the bottom of a very deep well.
We took our fall and have started our climb.
A future leader of our party enters the house next week John Robo.
He must wait however we have a long term one in place right now.

Belly,
I would not argue the internal workings or politics of the ALP with you as I am sure you know far better than me. But if you want an outsiders opinion, I have given it.

In relation to the now importance of the appeal of the leader and decreased importance of party policy. Ask the average person who some of the cabinet members are and see what answers you get. They are hardly known. Unless of course it was a celebrity candidate, which labor seems obsessed with putting forward, rather than a dinkum party member that has earned the candidacy. I mark that against Labor.

As for policies, You seem to be a level headed sort of bloke so I'm almost willing to bet that, if you read the Greens policies, you would shake your head in disbelief as to how they get votes. They have one I agree with, low immigration, but say nothing about that as they rely on Labor preferences to get their Senate/Upper House seats.
That makes them outright hypocrites.

Both major parties have a long way to go to earn my respect. But I am most likely the exception and all will depend on how many, sport and TV loving, electors your leaders can get support from at next election.

Belly,
I have voted for both parties, depending on timing, policies and circumstances. Federally, I was pleased to see the end of Howard, although Rudd has not impressed me too much so far (IMO his puerile one-upmanship of Turnbull's $100,000 deposit guarantee with his own ill-considered unlimited guarantee is bringing / will bring turmoil to Australian financials).

However, my question to you is how anyone could consider voting Labor at the next NSW election when we have endured 13 years of arguably the most indolent, corrupt and criminally incompetent governance of any 1st world democracy.

This is a genuine question...I would really like to know how a voter can be so rusted on so as to ignore all this. My personal feeling is that they MUST go. It is nonsense to suggest that the Libs could be worse...and even if (god forbid) they were, we can vote them out at the next election after the Labor detritus has been purged. That's the beauty of a democracy.

Unfortunately, I think it's only too true that we get the governments we deserve.

Belly,
I forgot to say. Have you considered that changing demographics may have played a big part in the Nats not winning Port Macquarie.

Many retirees have moved up and down the coast from Sydney.

Kassie first well I think the ALP only fell in a hole in the last 2 years of Carr.
We fell a long way with the last leader and no difference the criminal idiots riding on the party's back in Woolongong.
However , please consider this, far too many who did not get the government they wanted blame the voters.
How can we say I know better than them? they got it wrong?
No sorry the pile of bones from our blood bath needed another few but we are back , if we win it will be voters will, same if we get thrashed we must cop it.
Bazz Port has not changed recently it has always been like that.
The last state member was ex nationals, he held it as an independent easily.
He took another national seat, the ex deputy's prime ministers seat in federal Parliament.
The independent who won port did so with Liberal support hence the war on ABC radio spreading to Parliament this week.
Most coastal seats are national including the state seat next south.
The nationals are dieing, no longer interested in country people they are odds on to join the Liberals.
Star recruits? watch Robo go , in my view not stars but selected as the best candidate is the answer.
Too many hacks getting a seat and sleeping in it.

Belly you are quite right.

The ALP wouldn't get elected on a socialist platform. Australia has become more middle class over the last 20 years and some traditional occupations once considered, low paid and blue collar are earning equal or more to some of their white collar counterparts.

I meant more moving back towards a real 'social democracy' by adding a dose of socialism into a very capitalistic mix. :

Belly, I'm (so far) with you on 'Onya Rees- the ALP might have lucked onto a good one there. Time will tell. I wouldn't bet on the Libs for the next election just yet, plenty of time for them to shoot themselves in one or both feet yet.

Pelican, please no more Socialism, as opposed to limiting the abuses of money. Already every $ we earn has to be accounted for with the govt., what our children get taught is mandated by BB (and how it is taught), govt increasingly seeks to tell us what and how to think. We've got more than enough govt- health, education, transport. A huge social welfare network (alot of it wasted on middle class welfare). The state even wants to meddle in our happiness or lack of.

Smarter govt not more.

palimpsest
I don't want pure socialism either. It is like baking a cake - getting the ingredients just right so it doesn't rise too much and crack nor does it lose its puff and flop.

I am not without sin, I have told how I came from a very big family and a very poor one.
I never joined the communist party but was a fellow traveler in my teens.
Clearly headed down the wrong track.
Socialism is a different thing but it fails too.
We are just a bit socialistic in this country just compare our health and education to Americas.
We are closer to getting it right than them.
No easy task for Rees but he is full of promise.
Just think its been 60 years sense we had a man who worked as a leader.
Carrying garbage cans instead of a brief case.
It is strange, some will Dennie it, but if the Liberals had returned to the policy's that made them they would have won the last 2 NSW elections.
Just as strange it is unlikely they will return to that path before the next election, our best asset? yep it is our opponents.

NSW Labor will not rebuild itself with any sense of ethical standards if they re-elected.The rank and file will take this win as a confirmation of the present status quo that has continually spun it's way into power.
NSW Labor must be dis-assembled an rebuilt from it's grass roots.They have lost touch with both their principles and any sense of common good.Re-electing NSW Labor in it's present state,is like letting paedophiles play with your children.

Arjay your bias is as usual on display again.
Sorry but in truth I do not think your understanding of politics is great.
You could have found a great deal to charge my ALP with I have in the past months.
But again and again you totally devalue the voters.
Your next door neighbors are voters.
They have every right to vote as they think, and just maybe voted as a result of looking at who was the better.
At times it was not an easy task, Labor did not impress, but one shining fact has stood out for ten years.
The opposition was clearly worse.
Right now you can see the policy's that kept Labor in power in NSW being used in our federal Parliament.
The girlish giggles from the likes of Joe Hockey as his team rise to complain about nothing, spoiling tactics.
Impress no swinging voters, unless to not listen to them again.
the ALP is far from beaten, much ground has to be made up yet now they have a leader the last bloke should not have been in the house with a broom in his hands.

The thread stalled early and it is my fault as much as anyones.
I gave my true opinion that Labor can, probably will bounce back.
I highlighted my view our best chance is an opposition bent on complain not campaigning.
As in federal Parliament even taking a stand against government doing exactly what they would do if in office.
I expected far more evidence of how bad the NSW/ACT teams had got.
That evidence exists, it is like papers in an untidy sports ground after a gale.
The pain of a party that shouted to its share holders its rank and file, you do not matter.
See like every party , any self interest group some condemn me for saying publicly we must do better.
That self interest if not backed by true understanding of our faults is death.
It looks to me that the climb back will be long but positive.
Those papers, each one of them must be picked up and ownership taken for each.
But ownership of the party is back in its members hands, no more forgetting its votes one after another we need not beautiful people who are as useless as some who thankfully have fallen on swords they sharpened themselves.
This weekends country Labor conference will remind the party it is no mans toy.

Belly,

I have a feeling that your blind support and faith in Rees has more to do with having a member of the left faction leading the ALP rather than any ability he may have.

Belly said "Carrying garbage cans instead of a brief case." Total Rubbish (pardon the pun). Rees did some part-time work while at uni. He's been a briefcase carrying political staffer since 1995.

Rees has simply continued with the spin and lies that have plagued the government. The mini-budget will simply drive home this fact that the ALP is out of touch and that they couldn't manage to serve up a Coogee Bay Sundae in a sewer.

The raise announced today for upper management bureaucrats while frontline members of the public service suffer is just the start. Add to this the raise to the Harbour Bridge toll, the scrapping of the North-West Metro, Frenchs Forest Hospital and the Manly Jetcat service while Rees keeps the higher cost Rivercats due to political reasons and we'll see what Rees has in mind for this once great state.

Lets also keep in mind that we are over 2 years from an election, so it is madness for the Liberals/Nats to be releasing policies this far out. I would however look for a statement or something from them before this upcoming mini-budget debacle.

cheers,

d

Derick thanks for your comment, but have you looked at my post history?
Threads like NSW power without pride tell of my disgust with some in my party.
Rees ,yes he is from the left, not my faction, but he had to be better than that.
The Italian stallion turned out to be a gelding, and some of his fellow traveling pony's rocking horses.
Do you Friend think John Howard was wrong?
He said of the last defeated opposition team in this state quote.
You can not fatten a pig on market day, end quote.
Are plans and policy's for the conservative party and its dead leg the Nationals only let out of the box on election day?
No not blind support, I have watched the man and truly think it will take at least some effort for you to unseat him.
Our fallen show pony's [even a couple who have not yet fallen] would have given you the biggest win in our country's history, now you get no free gifts.

Every time a news broadcast from that news network owned by a former Australian says this is a no spin zone I know the lies are about to start.
But this is my honest view on the NSW country Labor conference held in Port Mac Quarrie this weekend.
Nothing like the annual conference in Sydney, this one ended full of promise.
Yes the wounds had been very deep, and for the first time in my life the mood was lets see if they have got it together.
The task is huge.
No easy way out but for the first time I heard our party's head speak, and it was just great.
One respected commentator said he was more impressed than he had been with Rudd!
New younger Ministers spoke roads for a start, it has been so long ago that we could talk to a minister for roads.
Positive meeting ending with a huge task in front of the party but a view we are on track.
On getting out however the front page story, we intend to charge children for school travel.
I have a plan.
Its a good one.
Sack, remove banish, the idiot who found a new way to kill my party!
Tell me please on your way out the door the person who did that, who will protect the country kids forced to walk to school?
Or the city ones doing the same on unsafe streets?
Please retrieve your brains from the bucket at the door.
While you are there grab that mop, the place needs a good scrub up, a job you may do well.

Port turned out to be an interesting place to hold the meeting.
Once both state and federal seats belonged to the National party, the warn out burnt out dieing party.
No less than our former deputy prime minister held the Federal one Mark AWB Vail.
Port may not vote Labor but it is a National free zone.
In 2011 who ever wins they will not need the dead rump of conservative Australia the Nationals to govern.

Belly says:

"Positive meeting ending with a huge task in front of the party but a view we are on track.
On getting out however the front page story, we intend to charge children for school travel.
I have a plan.
Its a good one.
Sack, remove banish, the idiot who found a new way to kill my party!"

Yeah, I heard that announcement too. Unless it was a measure that was part of a real and co-ordinated package of NSW government cost-cutting, I'd have to agree with you.

But it isn't. This morning we hear that it is (only?) the 'back to school allowance' of $50 per child (?) that is being targetted. I think it is being represented that that measure will save $20 million. A $20M saving was definitely mentioned, but whether the figures really stack up is something, given the dismal quality of mainstream media reporting, in which I have no confidence.

'Suck it and see what you can get away with' seems to be the method being employed. That's not leadership! Nor is it good government.

Here's some more dismal journalism containing no hard numbers: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/28/2403559.htm

Immediately REVERSING this decision would show leadership, and constitute good government.

If I'm not wrong, any pay increase for senior NSW public servants is also a pay increase for NSW Parliamentarians. At a time when many Australians have retirement funds invested in putting and keeping roofs over other Australians heads effectively frozen, it is no time for Parliamentarians or senior public servants to be getting a pay increase.

If he's fair dinkum, Rees should reverse it. I don't mean just cancel the increase. I mean impose an immediate 3.9% pay cut from the previous levels upon the NSW senior public servants and Parliamentarians, just to introduce some reality into the thinking of these people. If some leave, so much the better, but I don't think many will. They have all had it too good for too long!

Forrest good post, and you are quite right it stinks.
So?
While committed to my leader, in fact no hard task he is very good, it is so crimson silly it has to be a set up.
Within hours Nathan will spring before a camera shouting words not unlike mine and say its not going to happen.
Wont he? please say yes!
Hard times ahead no one said it would be easy cost cuts Even job losses, may I nominate 6.000 public servants? start at the higher salary block.

I hope people won't feel put out.

I just needed a forum to test out my browser profile on.

Like every thread about current events the thread has been left behind by changing events.
So do I still think Labor has a chance in NSW?
If they do its becomeing hard to see how, the latest sacking should have been a good sign, yes getting rid of some one instead of white wash should be good.
Given the ranting and gutter junalism of Sydney press, discounting the manufactured news, it still looks like supporters of the minister put him before my party.
The mini budget?
What ever they did would not be user friendly but back to school?
Why not just pay it to those who need it.
Rough country coming but we do, truly do have one last ace up our sleeve.
The opposition.
Red rattlers back on track rail controlled by the government not public servants just maybe the landslide can be halted but no sure bet.