cont'd

Dear Polycarp,

Regarding the Poppy Growers in Afghanistan (visit
Northern Tassie - the fields are full of poppies,
behind electric fences)...

If they did not have buyers for their product, who
convert the poppies into drugs, then there would
be no poppy fields. Maybe the authorities should
be pursuing the drug lords and not destroying the
livelihood of the peasants. If they gave the
peasants the incentive to grow other crops, then there
would not be a problem.

Currently, the Australian Government and the US Government
is subsidising crops for the production of canola and
ethanol.

Foxy,
Glad you liked Tor Hunloe's book. He’s an interesting man too. I met him at a book signing. I agree with much that he says. I'll tell him you liked his book.
Being who I am, Examinator ant I do see a few faults most are very minor glossing over contexts. i.e. When he talked about the ancient Greeks what he didn't say that they were a brutal, internecine group.
At one stage Athens’ political unrest decreased the population by 30%. Consequently Solon did his thing then went into exile so the Athenians work out what his poetry advice meant themselves. See Thucydides 'The Peloponnesian War'...worth a browse. Given Greece's 20th century history not a lot has changed.

My point; like Tor says we haven't advanced very much on understanding our selves (let alone getting on).

Secondly, if you look at the times (context) most great thinking/discoveries occurred in times of extreme 'challenge'.

I agree that we should focus more on understanding and getting on with ourselves dealing with our true nature rather than hiding behind dogma.

Given current extreme challenges we can therefore look forward to more brilliance from our thinkers (intellectuals) as it’s they who POINT the way. It is up to us to walk the right path.

Conversely wee currently tend to see philosophies as mutually exclusive magic bullets rather than adopting the best of all. Capitalism has some good (right) and communism has good too (left) I ask why not combine the bits of both rather than fighting over the absurd …which is absolute? This renders us victims of Evolution ‘blindness’ totally vulnerable both our selves and outside events.

Religion/philosophies are tools (means to an end not the end result) to help us towards humanistic goal improvement making us beneficiaries of Evolution… by ensuring a positive direction to Evolution. Yes that does suggest that we can positively influence natural outcome. Can you think of a more worthwhile purpose to the meaning of our lives as individuals? :-)

Dear Examinator,

Thank you for your input to this thread.

And, please tell Tor Hundloe that I liked
his book very much (as you can tell).

Hundloe may have left out the brutality of the
ancient Greeks, but what I valued was that he
did point out, "that the replacement of mysticism by
empiricism and rational thought (i.e. the scientific
method) was the Greek achievement. Had the classical
era of Greek thought not occurred we would be explaining
21st century climate change by reference to powerful
gods seeking to teach us a lesson or two!"

And, somehow I can identify you with Socrates...
From him comes the dictum, "the examined life"
is the life worth living.
Socrates asked us to question everything, and to not
accept an answer until we had rigorously debated it...

My father also, taught me to ask why.

I agree with your concept of taking the best out
of all the systems we have - be they capitalistic
or communistic or other. However, not everyone
thinks that way, as the hisory of the world has
shown.

Hundloe confirms that, "let us be willing to
confront both authoritarian idealogies (likely to be
the religious kind) and moral relativists (who won't allow
you to call a spade a spade because this might offend).

The history of the world suggests...that the authority of the
thinker can surpass that of the warrior.
However, this happy state of the world is often temporary.
That is one of our major problems."

Foxy,
I thought you would like it.

It's enough just to know something is. It is just as important to know why (your dad was wise to teach you to question. That, observation and clear thought are the best legacy a father can leave)...context; to know what caused it and then what CAN we learn from it.

My favourite line of investigation is the above, hence my tendency to take the objective (hopefully) view. Clearly I am not devoid of foibles (I've got a box of them under my bed) etc but out of context they mean nothing and are irrelevant.

I agree that the Greek philosophies have added to our 'tool kit' immeasurably but again the question for me is why the link between horrible circumstances and amazing clarity/advancement of thought? The fact that we can do this gives me confidence in humanity.

I submit to you that until we can break the nexus between the two we will remain evolutionary victims.

Statistically genera last a million or so years some longer, some less, then become extinct.

If we are to become a beneficiary of evolution we must curb our self destructive ways, Secular Humanism.

While not religious at all I can see that religion does have its place for some, as a means to give short term value in life but it must never be the goal. The beneficiary bit simply shows that one doesn't need religion to have a greater purpose and Evolution isn't necessary the Tyrannosaurus wait to devour us as some religious people imply.

Me? Like Socrates? Eek! What a humbling thought...unless… it's your way of saying that I'm an incorrigible, irascible intellectual curmudgeon.
Me like, Socrates? Remind me not to have coffee with you any time soon… well… mine's black no sugar and definitely no hemlock (it gives me mass existence failure after which I become dead boring). :-)

Dear Examinator,

I promise not to give you a cup of
hemlock to drink...
At least, not yet.

From the short time that I've shared
with you in cyber-space, and after
reading your posts I've deduced that
you do have much in common with the
Greek philosopher. And I don't mean
your age...

You also seem interested
in why people behave the way they do.
And you make me very aware of my
ignorance in so many areas...

So like it, or not, I visualize you as
Socrates...

Take care,

It looks like this thread has now run
its course.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to it.

Your input was much appreciated.