With the Puppetmasters ordering the Puppet, (a man who has problems stringing together more than five words to make a sentence), to bring the major players in the US Election campaign together to work out a plan to "save" the Wall Street Stock Exchange by the injection of trillions of US Taxpayers Dollars, one could feel a certain tingling in the nether regions as one questions "exactly what is the purpose of the Stock Exchange if NOT to trade in shares and reflect the falls and climbs of reciprocating "Bearish" and "Bullish" market forces?"

The cause of this latest panic-driven "decline" is simple result of overselling of goods to a market that cannot repay it`s debts!

The Wall Street High Flyers have been greedily gobbling up shares in companies that have immorally continued flogging-off property to mortgagees who have not had the ability to repay their loans, hence the Freddie Mac and Fannie May fiascos.

What has followed and is continuing to be exposed is the accelerating collapse of many other companies who have over-committed themselves in their own apparent greed and mis-management in the what is now being realised as a very painful rush to "get part of the action!"

If this situation is hopefully to be remedied by injecting trillions of dollars of US taxpayers money to prop up these errant and failed companies, then the US system is condemning itself and the principles of it`s self-styled Capitalism.

The US is already the World Bank`s largest debtor ( and has no intention of repaying any of it!) so how could they possibly be allowed to borrow more just to simply bolster the interests of the Fat-cats at the expense of the little people?

One may wonder how companies like Halliburton and the like are performing?

Maybe another major conflict is imminent to appease the US insolvency issues?

Ive heard it said that Bush will call in Marshall law b4 the next election :)

Who knows?

Who or what is Marshall law?

I think that the mighty USA's days are numbered.

The Word of God tells us that the last two great powers belong to 1. the antichrist, the Beast of Revelation 13: 16-18 and 14:9-11, who wants a microchip/e-tag/mark on everyones right hand or forehead and whos based in the EU and...
2. the Chinese (see kings of the east...Revelation 9:16 and 16:12).

Nothing is mentioned about the USA in the Bible...so I think she's in for a fall from power.

The reason I push national defence is because it looks like theres no USA in the endtimes to help the South Pacfic region against an incursion by China.

Gibo, you should know better than anyone that, with hindsight, any world event can be shoehorned into some biblical prophecy.

The US will take a beating from this, but no other world power comes close to matching it economically or militarily. If anything, the coming recession/depression will serve as a warning to tighten up the rules on financial free-wheelers in order to remain dominant in the world economy.

Few of us alive today, if any, will see a world in which the US is not on top of the heap.

I think you are right Gibo. Due to ungodliness (the US is full of abortion, homosexuality, immorality, greed, fornication, pornography etc) will be judged. Once they were great senders of missionaries but now they are promoters of secular humanism and all its rotten fruit. Thankfully they still have a good percentage of god fearing people.

The great news in all these events is that we can be sure that the Lord Jesus Christ is still on His throne. He laughs at the fools who say their is no god and who honestly believe they are masters of their own destiny.

It seems it won't be long before Israel is attacked. The US will no longer back them for whatever reason. The exciting thing is that these events were prophesied a long time ago. Unlike the gw high priests who rattle off all sorts of doom and gloom prophecies the bible will again prove to be true as it always has.

I would observe, the growth of the Roman empire ceased around 50AD but it was not until 1461 that the last of its ‘colonies’ was lost.

Now the ‘collapse’ of the British empire commenced when it lost its American colonies (1775-83) about 120 years before it stopped colonizing new territories like Rhodesia in 1894 or 145 years before it took over colonies forfeited by Germany following WWI

The socialist/communist empire collapsed after a mere 70 years, defeated by the superior strategies and political systems of the Americans and their Western Allies.

Somehow, I don’t think USA is about to implode and relinquish its place in the world anytime soon.

(regardless how ‘appealing’ that might seem to some small minds)

I might even be tempted to put money on it

Polycarp: "Ive heard it said that Bush will call in Marshall law b4 the next election."

Bugsy: "Who or what is Marshall law?"

I think it's one of Polly's typos. He meant Martian Law.

Col: "Somehow, I don’t think USA is about to implode and relinquish its place in the world anytime soon."

I agree, thanks to the mighty taxpayers of the USA, the Wall Street Banks will continue in the style to which they feel entitled.

BTW, Health Care for children was, at $9 billion, considered too expensive and rejected by the Bush Administration. As it should! Where would we be without all those high-flying CEO's? A more equitable world? Horrible thought.

It is also a problem for us.It is making the world more unstable.Can we rely on the US if China or Russia become aggressive in our region?Iran,North Korea and Russia are already more emboldened.

THe US could pick another fight just as a distraction from home problems.It will also be tempted to assert it's authority just to silence it's enemies.Iraq was unnecessary since Saddham was a counter balance to Iran.They were divided.The US united them.Not very smart.For all our sakes,the US needs to do some soul searching and quickly get it's act together.

The day of the first presidential debate.We need to pause over the increasing lack of discernment among the American people;the dumbing-down of our nation.With each day we see more and more stupidity being sold to the American people,without so much as a blink from the stupefied nation.Where to start America,to examine the lunacy our country has become?The response from the GOP?A 700 billion dollar bailout plan to save the very companies that acted so unscrupulously to begin with.Why is it,no one is asking why this plan was not designed years ago,before the collapse and no one tried to prevent it? While we're on the subject,why hasn’t anyone seriously questioned, where the 700 billion dollar figure came from, to begin with? Oh that’s right,we're supposed to be stupid sheep;just give the 700 billion and ask no questions.To put a rather pedantic plan into effect,let's start with all the corrupt CEO's that made millions, with greed and deceit,taking thousands of innocent victims down, so they could profit.The United States should begin seizing and freezing their savings and bank accounts.Next,let's take all the billionaires in America and have them donate a billion or so.If Warren Buffet can donate his companies to charity,let him donate,to the United States's deficit.Then Oprah,Bill Gates and all the other billionaires, have them "donate' a billion or so.
Sound immature and irrational? Not any more than what our government has done to us already!
I don’t want to have a beer with my president.I want him solving the problems that face this country and the world.I would prefer he be sober when he is trying to figure it all out(not a drunk like Bush). I don't want my president to be just like me,I want him to be better than me;preferably a lot better and a lot smarter.We've had eight years of a national embarrassment.A president who couldn’t put together a coherent sentence with two hands,a thesaurus and a flashlight.I'm relatively certain,if you asked Bush,he'd say a thesaurus was a giant reptile that lived millions of years ago. Any comments?

“I agree, thanks to the mighty taxpayers of the USA, the Wall Street Banks will continue in the style to which they feel entitled.”

Not if the republicans get their way, of course the left of American politics is no different to the left of any other – weak willed, seeking subsidies, incapable of placing responsibility where it belongs.

As for “BTW, Health Care for children was, at $9 billion, considered too expensive”

Having children is not a right; it is personal choice and a responsibility.

If you want children, they cost money, be prepared to pay for them

It is the morally feeble who feel entitled to have children but then expect the state to hand them every form of subsidy as reward for their ‘copulatory’ effort.

Imho, we have too many children in care and foster homes because their morally inadequate parents are dysfunctionally incapable of shouldering their responsibilities.

Arjay “Can we rely on the US if China or Russia become aggressive in our region?”

Well the US did come up to the plate for WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam (after the French failed). They also oversaw the dismantling of the USSR threat and Nixon commenced the China dialogue.

We have a treaty with US. I think that says it.

I recall Bill Hayden, one time leader of Australian Labor party, commenting that Australia needed a nuclear deterrent to keep Indonesia in check, I guess we have managed to rely on USA for that too.

msanne “The response from the GOP?A 700 billion dollar bailout”

actually the GOP is the ones who are holding the line.

You write as if you are an US citizen?

Am I correct or not?

as for “eight years of national embarrassment”

short or very selective memory.

Bill Clintons antics with “our Monica” (mouth organ (harmonica)) who he did not have sex with (unless she swallowed) were moments of national pride?

For all his failings (of which there are many) at least Bush is not perceived as someone who cannot keep it in his pants or bonks the interns in the oval office.

Col: "For all his failings (of which there are many) at least Bush is not perceived as someone who cannot keep it in his pants or bonks the interns in the oval office."

Thank you for acknowledging my post Col - you are too kind.

We all know that George W has God on his side, as in believing that God approved of invading Iraq. Kind makes a bit of sexual indiscretion look very tame.

I guess you'd prefer a religious fundy president with his finger on the nuke trigger rather than one who enjoys nooky instead. Puts a whole new spin on "make love not war" now doesn't it?

Col further endears himself to the far right wingnuts with: "If you want children, they cost money, be prepared to pay for them."

In line with this view that only the rich should reproduce, perhaps the $9 billion would've been better spent on a sterilisation program of all the poor.

msanne:

Bravo! ......and spot-on! It is refreshing to know that there are persons out there in this "twisty world" who are prepared to call it as it is.

I don`t know what nationality you are, but it is not that important, the message remains the same regardless of who delivers it.

Unfortunately for us speaking out against what we percieve to be wrong can bring repercussions against us!.....this is the penalty that we pay for speaking out, however if we ever expect to see change in an established system we have no other option than to voice our opinions regardless of how distasteful it may seem to deeply entrenched self-servers.

Keep up the good work!.....you have at least one supporter!

Gibo: << Dont know about Obama but think McCain might be strong enough to keep the status quo. >>

Yeah, but Gibo - if McCain keeps the status quo by resisting the New World Order, with its forehead barcodes and Kings of the East and all that, won't that delay Christ's return?

What's your problem - aren't you Rapture Ready?

I mean, if you're not, what hope for the rest of us?

Well, isn't it interesting how almost everyone here commenting on this topic knows exactly what the problem is, exactly what's causing it, exactly where we're headed because of it, and oh Lordy, Lordy me one or two even know exactly what's needed to be done about it.

That's amazing, Imagine that! It seems that the fountain of all knowledge exists within the minds of anonymous armchair critics with computer keyboards in their lounge rooms.

You guys should be world leaders. All our problems would then be over. You have all the answers.

JW, I don't believe anyone who posts, believes they have all the "answers'.
As for myself, it is an venue in which to 'vent' frustration with all the 'supposed' leaders who got us into the mess we are in. Whether it is a Democrat or Republican. As far as I'm concerened, they are all politicians, different horses from the same stable, to con us into thinking that our vote counts, well it doesn't. Go to you tube and type in "Clinton Curtis voting machine" and you will see the inventor, swearing in court, that the votes are fixed.

The state of our economy is all part of a "trickle down" effect. The economy did not take a dive all of a sudden? It takes time. The banks made the bad loans, now years later it's caught up with them.

I was disgusted how Clinton's debacle with ML, disgraced our nation, with Kennedy's when he was in office, Bush's drinking, and Watergate, with Nixon and etc. etc. etc. etc. I don't have much faith in any politician, or anyone who will be the President, because they are already bought and sold in my opinion.

msanne:

Once again spot on. Hit the nail right on the head!

There is nobody out there that knows exactly how to solve the problem of eliminating these destructive forces that pervade ALL of this worlds societies, some more evil than others, but ALL evil in some shape or form!

It would appear that history has shown and proved beyond any shadow of doubt that the relationship between man and evil is, and always has been intertwined.

Admittedly there are a small minority of human beings who do recognise the full extent of these human failings, and if they were ever given the chance these few could no doubt change the world for the better, albeit in an infinitesmal way,
but I fear that it is simply just too late for this to happen due to the totalitarian control being exercised by the hidden "masters" of this planet!

Msanne “It's a government ruled by all the World's secret societies: It doesn't matter who's elected,”

Ah can I guess, operating under the guiding hand of the Elders of Zion?

“Skull & Bones Society at Yale University.”

I saw the movie too…

And regarding your Kennedy speech, I was asked, twice if I wanted to join the free masons… so what. On completely separate occasions I also went to Mason functions with the local lodge (or whatever they call themselves) president… an organization as sinister as Rotary or the Lions

As for secret society of bankers, well lets understand this, the process of “banking” requires “TRUST” to function at all levels. What might seem to you as a closed society is in fact merely a group of people who will only deal with others they “trust” because when they open their doors to the “unknown” they can be vulnerable to being ripped off, just like giving credit to an Hispanic, the first time I did that, I got a rubber cheque.

Regarding your own comment “. The banks made the bad loans, now years later it's caught up with them”

And who did they make those loans to and who through?

Do you think any banker wants to have bad loans?

Go to the source, see who defaulted and walked away from their obligations.

Then vent your spleen at them.

Btw I do infact also blame the bankers. Having some recent past experience in the mortgage business, it is easy for the fraudulent to defraud on mortgages. The banks were too eager to invest their depositors money but that is called “stupidity” not “conspiracy”.

“I don't have much faith in any politician,”

Nor do I, that I why Reagan and in UK Thatcher, were right and the USSR wrong… Reagan and Thatcher legislated for smaller government, the USSR was an example of “all government”.

I notice it is the Republicans in USA who are holding the line on commonsense and have resisted coming to the “bankers baleout party”

Col, you know as well as I do that Kennedy speech was about Communism, not Freemasonry.

This site is turning into a conspiracy nutbags haven, I guess that's what happens when you listen to them. No one IRL usually gives them the time of day. The internet is a wonderful thing is it not?

Bugsy:

I suspect that you are trying to tell us that the "New World Order","Globilization" and "One World Government" is a figment of our imagination and we are creating this as "Conspiracy" in our own minds?

Have a look at the worlds top leaders past and present,: Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, George Bush Snr, George W Bush, Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Robert Menzies, Paul Keating, John Howard, Kevin Rudd to name just a few and tell me that they were NOT selected by a higher authority to "serve" as puppet leaders!...Most of them should have been confined to a Mental Institution for The Criminally Insane!

No! .....It is NOT "conspiritorial" to pass legislation to grant immunity from prosecution for administation members eg: Donald Rumsfeld, George W Bush, Tony Blair, John Howard and a multitude of other participants in what could be loosely termed as Genocide and Mass Murder committed under the outright lie of Weapons of Mass Destruction!

It is NOT "conspiritorial" to seize human beings, fly them half way around the world and then torture and confine them to a life of living hell, with no charges brought against them?

No Bugsy,.....If that is your idea of Democracy then you can have it all on your own,....( and the best of luck to you when they come and knock on your door in the dead of night!)

Cuphandle “….they were NOT selected by a higher authority to "serve" as puppet leaders!...Most of them should have been confined to a Mental Institution for The Criminally Insane!”

At least in the west the process of political selection is pretty transparent.

But you really should check out how many of them are “Rhodes Scholars”, along with Hawke and Beasley.

“to grant immunity from prosecution”

Actually I thought there was an historic “immunity” associated with the position, regardless of the person.

“It is NOT "conspiritorial" to seize human beings, fly them half way around the world and then torture and confine them to a life of living hell, with no charges brought against them?”

I recall George Orwells famous quote

“You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm.”

Without condoning the actions the cracked Cup mentions I would suggest such antics pales into insignificance compared to what happened in the Lubyanka prison or the gulags which the men you name stood as bastions against.

Your “self righteous indignation” and paranoia seem to be getting the better of you, Cracked-Cup.

Well written Cuphandle, in my opinion...right on the money.I "hooray" you for speaking (writing) up.
To Col and Bugsy, I respect your rights and priviledges to your thoughts and freedom of speech. However, try to keep in mind these rights, apply likewise to others.
Free Speech also.... applies to the internet!
Freedom of speech is being able to speak freely without censorship.
The right to freedom of speech is recognized as human right in under
Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and
recognized in international human rights law under Article 19 of the
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). The
ICCPR recognizes the right to freedom of speech as "the right to
hold opinions without interference. Everyone shall have the right to
freedom of expression". [1][2] Furthermore freedom of speech is
recognized in Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights
which establishes human rights law on a regional level.
The synonymous term freedom of expression is sometimes used to
denote not only freedom of verbal speech but any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

I have deleted a number of comments on this thread. Some were deleted for flaming, and others because they do not meet the intellectual standards that one would expect of a serious site. If you want to post bizarre conspiracy theories, then there must be a site for you, but this is not it. If you can't find a site, then start your own blog.

This is a site for serious discussion of policy and current affairs. We try to be as inclusive as possible, but you can get to a stage in the debate when irrational contributions drive away contributions that are rational. As we are primarily about rational debate, I can't allow that to continue.

And I've just deleted another post. If you want to argue about my moderation decisions, then email me directly.

Cuphandle. you posted your opinion on Friday, today, Tuesday you found others agree with you.So do I.The worst decision I ever made was to borrow money to start a business, tax deductible interest.Five years later paying 19.5% I lost heaps.Only tax deductible, if I could make enough to pay the Interest! Sell the house! for half of what I PAID FOR IT! lesson learnt.How many in America are in the same boat?

DIPLOMAN “The worst decision I ever made was to borrow money to start a business, tax deductible interest.Five years later paying 19.5% I lost heaps”

The salient point to make there is
‘worst decision “I” ever made’

It as your decision, DIPLOMAN.
Sure interest is tax deductible but only against income.

When you are making losses, well, as a deduction it is not worth squat

But all of that is hardly the fault of the people who lent you the money any more than it is the fault of the tax agent who filled in your tax return.

Serious point of interest
what sort of business? – something you knew a lot about before hand or did a lot of research in before borrowing ?

Did you do cash flow projections?

I have one business with a tax loss on it (although that was stabilized to breakeven presently). The difference is, I did not put myself into extra debt to fund it, I used surplus cash from another business which I also own.

DIPLOMAN:

I sympathize totally with you in your predicament! No doubt you are just one of many who have and will be caught up in the crisis that is occurring across the world as a result of the excesses of a greedy marketplace, selfish business CEO`s, managers and shareholders, who were blinded by the opportunity to make a quick killing!....Now the chickens are coming home to roost and we will all have to pay the penalty in one way or another for Wall Street`s excesses!

Let us hope that the resultant fall-out will not damage the little people who are NOT responsible for this monetary fiasco!