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Posted by Paul.L, Monday, 29 December 2008 12:28:05 PM
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cont,
This is clearly the collapse of the South Tower. It’s the only recorded event of an appropriate magnitude, which fits. If it were as you say, an explosion, how could such a momentous explosion not be captured on camera. There were windows all over the building, yet we do not see any sign of such a massive explosion. What do you suggest made those sounds and where? Dagget says >> “Paul is not interested to know what Lou Cacchioli tried to tell the 9/11 Commission” You really are getting worse. You now seem to come up with at least one lie every post. Maybe when you can stop lying and worse, accusing me of doing so to cover your own mendacity, I might consider not ridiculing your shortcomings. I went looking for a transcript of what Cachioli said at the 9/11 commission. I couldn’t find anything, which is probably why you haven’t pasted anything. You say >> “Well, why don't you tell us what you think, Paul? Was he right about anything? Do you think he imagined it all? Do you think he made it all up?” I think we can trust everything he says he saw. I don’t doubt what he heard. All I am questioning is the consclusions you and the truthers have drawn from his testimony. You say >> “ ... you clutch at every conceivable straw ... to convince others to ignore the testimony of "FDNY guys (who) were actually there” I’m not trying to get "people" to ignore the testimony. I’m merely pointing out the illogicality of the conclusions that you and the other truthers draw from this testimony. The fact that none of these firfighters who you claim back up your version of events, perhaps excluding Schroeder, have come forward to repeat ANY of the truth movements ridiculous claims is highly instructive. There is no doubt that if large numbers of firemen believed their colleagues had been murdered by the govt, we would be hearing about it. TBC Posted by Paul.L, Monday, 29 December 2008 12:40:54 PM
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CONT,
You say >> “Paul has attempted to dismiss or rationalise away every piece of evidence I have presented either from firefighters or other people who "were actually there" whether from Lou Cacchioli, John Schroeder, William Rodriguez, Dennis Tardio, Patrick Zoda or Barry Jennings, but has presented none which backs up the case he is arguing.” Firstly, NONE of the evidence you have presented holds up. I’ve looked at each piece individually and they amount to nothing. Secondly, I have introduced the NIST report, the 9/11 commission and video evidence which supports my case. Far more reliable sources that internet conspiracy theorists. You have not found anyone who says “I saw a bomb” before it went off. You have not found anyone credible who says they saw a bomb go off. The evidence you have presented of bombs going off is often a reference to the sights and sounds of the collapse of the buildings themselves, and not the cause of the collapse. Regarsing Cacchiolli, you say >> “He has courageously made public statements about his experiences which flatly contradict the Official US Government explanation of the Twin Tower 'collapses' No he hasn’t, that’s the point. Finally, you say >> “If anyone is interested to see why the picture at ….” You are clearly deranged. Talking to yourself is the first sign of insanity. Why do you insist there are people following this when you have no evidence of this whatsoever. Posted by Paul.L, Monday, 29 December 2008 12:46:02 PM
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Paul has, yet again, avoided acknowledging is that Lou Cacchioli's heard three separate large explosions whilst inside the North Tower IN ADDITION To what he is trying to construe (rightly or wrongly) as being the collapse of the South Tower.
Here, once again are the words that Paul wants others to forget: "Tommy and I had to go back down the elevator for tools and no sooner did the elevators close behind us, we heard this huge explosion that sounded like a bomb." "I somehow got into the stairwell and there were more people there. When I began to try and direct down, another huge explosion like the first one hits. This one hits about two minutes later, although it's hard to tell, but I'm thinking, 'Oh. My God, these bastards put bombs in here like they did in 1993!'" "Then as soon as we get in the stairwell, I hear another huge explosion like the other two." (http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html#Cacchioli) That's three distinct "huge explosion(s)" in addition to the rapid succession of explosions that Paul insists was the South Tower collapsing. Paul doesn't confront this evidence head on. Instead he tries to imply that because it wasn't captured on camera or because Lou Cacchioli did not see it for himself with his own eyes, that it could not have happened. --- I note also that Paul has not respond to my question: "If Lou Cacchioli personally did not have 'definitive proof bombs were actually detonated' would Paul at least concede that the 9/11 Commission should have at least have seriously investigated that possibility given that he and 112 members of the FDNY many other had clearly heard 'what sounded like bombs' or had seen explosions? ..." --- And he has still declined my challenge to show where in the broadcast at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=LJyBuANVkQ4 the columnt cat at a neat angle of approcimately 45 degrees at http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/thermiteonwtccolumns_small.jpg is to be found. --- And I could go on and on and on and on. Posted by daggett, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 2:00:16 AM
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(This is the above post with corrections.)
Paul has, yet again, avoided acknowledging is that Lou Cacchioli heard three separate large explosions whilst inside the North Tower IN ADDITION To what he is trying to construe (rightly or wrongly) as being the collapse of the South Tower. Here, once again, are the words that Paul wants others to forget: "Tommy and I had to go back down the elevator for tools and no sooner did the elevators close behind us, we heard this huge explosion that sounded like a bomb." "I somehow got into the stairwell and there were more people there. When I began to try and direct down, another huge explosion like the first one hits. This one hits about two minutes later, although it's hard to tell, but I'm thinking, 'Oh. My God, these bastards put bombs in here like they did in 1993!'" "Then as soon as we get in the stairwell, I hear another huge explosion like the other two." (http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html#Cacchioli) That's three distinct "huge explosion(s)" in addition to the rapid succession of explosions that Paul insists was the South Tower collapsing. Paul doesn't confront this evidence head on. Instead, he tries to imply that because it wasn't captured on camera or because Lou Cacchioli did not see it for himself with his own eyes, that it could not have happened. --- I note also that Paul has not responded to my question: "If Lou Cacchioli personally did not have 'definitive proof bombs were actually detonated' would Paul at least concede that the 9/11 Commission should have at least have seriously investigated that possibility given that he and 112 members of the FDNY many other had clearly heard 'what sounded like bombs' or had seen explosions? ..." --- And he has still declined my challenge to show where in the broadcast at http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=LJyBuANVkQ4 the column cut at a neat angle of approximately 45 degrees at http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/thermiteonwtccolumns_small.jpg is to be found. --- And I could go on and on and on and on. Posted by daggett, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 8:30:07 AM
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Dagget,
You say >> “I note also that Paul has not respond to my question: and I could go on and on. Coming from someone who dodges every single question he doesn’t want to answer, this is rather amusing. From my last post only, you refused to answer 1) My point that the truther article states that Cachiolli thought he was in the North Tower after it began collapsing. 2) My question regarding what you thought these sounds, which you insist were not the collapse, were 3) My point that if these were explosions of the magnitude which Cachiolli describes, How is it we don’t see them on the hundreds of videos of the incident? How is it that these momentous explosions weren’t registered on the seismographs nearby which caught everything else 4) My point that you were again LYING when you said I had no interest in what Cachiolli said to the 9/11 commission 5) My point that you were AGAIN misstating my position by accusing me of trying to get “people” to ignore the evidence of the firefighters etc 6) My point that if these hundreds of firefighters actually believed the truth movement claims that their brothers were murdered, we would definitely hear about it. 7) My rebuttal to your point that I have not introduced any evidence to back up my points 8) My point that you have no presented ANYONE who says they saw a bomb before it went off, nor any physical evidence of bombs (like det cord, communications gear, detonators, explosive residue etc) Nor have you offered testimony from anyone who actually states unequivocally that they SAW a bomb going off. 9) Finally you have provided no evidence despite repeated requests to demonstrate this “audience” which you believe is following this debate. And that’s just from my last post. This behaviour is typical Dagget. You are gutless Posted by Paul.L, Tuesday, 30 December 2008 2:21:34 PM
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You said >> “You tried to imply that that Paul Cacchioli (http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html#Cacchioli) must have confused the collapse of the South Tower with explosions inside the North Tower, which he was inside at the time.”
?? ?? ?? Actually I made two points regarding this and I’m not implying anything. I’m flat out stating as FACT that according to your truther article, Cachiolli himself thought he was inside the north tower after it began collapsing. If you read the arctic beacon article closely, you will see that is what is written.
Here is the patriots website extract >> "Then as soon as we get in the stairwell, I hear another huge explosion like the other two. Then I heard bang, bang, bang - huge bangs - and surmised later it was the floors pan caking on top of one another. ... [Editor's note: At this point, Mr. Cacchioli was in the stairwell of the 23rd floor of the North Tower, approximately 850 feet below the airplane's point of impact at floors 93 to 98 and approximately 300 feet above ground level. The entire collapse of the North Tower occurred in only 11 seconds. It's unlikely the sounds referred to here by Mr. Cacchioli were floors pancaking since it took him several additional minutes to exit the building.] http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html
You say >> “I showed that this could not be the case … “
No you did NOT. You absolutely did NOT and that is the point.
Lou Turilli says >> “Louie Cacchioli, … took the radio off of me and he went up. …. One elevator was only working … The door closed, they went up, and it just seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came ... There were rocks falling and all that. … " http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html
TBC