Pynchme, why is it so necessary for you to ignore the same controlling behaviours when they happen to men? Do you think that are not some women who do the things you describe to partners just as some men do?

Whilst female assault on men is technically illegal very few in authority take it seriously. I know of men who have tried to report abuse by a female spouse to the police and been laughed at. I've had marriage counselors dismiss my former wifes violence on the basis that she was smaller than me and unlikely to do serious harm and accepted her view that her violence was justified because she did not like how I was standing (even when I was seated driving a car). Peole have got so fixed on the idea that violence is something men do that they don't recognise it when women do it.

It's an issue that needs some attention.

I'm trying to keep this discussion away from the relative proportions of DV perpetrated by both genders, thats a whole other discussion but if you are in the least interested in some serious studies on that I'll provide some links to material.

I'm quite happy to say violence against women is wrong. Violence against women is wrong. Done, I've never denied that, never tried to downplay it or dismiss it.

What I have trouble understanding is why federal politicians and people such as yourself have so much trouble saying violence against men is wrong.

R0bert

R0bert,

I don't have any trouble saying that violence by women against men is wrong. I said something to that effect in my last post. Women who hurt men should be charged and held accountable to the full extent that's possible by law and socially.

If victims are laughed at then of course that needs addressing. I can tell you that I have known of one man who was injured by his wife and of course I stood for him, as I have for females. Violence perpetrated against a partner is wrong; physical violence is assault.
However, it is also true that in that case, it was one hit/one time. He hadn't lived in fear over a period of time.

I know the relative proportions of DV; right down to some hospital presentations (though data of that sort is not widely collected). If you're busy soaking your hurts in some of those mens sites - the likes of which Glen Sacks supports; I urge you to go to xymasculinities and to find other research as well - check the information they provide VERY carefully.

We can both be opposed to DV, no matter which sex perpetrates it - but hiding one isn't going to throw the other into relief. Btw, if people are laughing at and disbelieving when men say they are hurt, that's a result of old style sexism, to which of course, I am opposed.

Excellent posts Pynchme.

The following will be my one and only contribution to this thread, as I find just reading the callousness directed at women too upsetting after being beaten and mentally abused for 8 years by my ex, before I was able to get enough courage together to leave.

DV - irrespective of who does it to whom is quite clearly wrong. What I find disturbing is the vitriol that pours out whenever violence against women is even mentioned. It is as if there is a deliberate attempt to stop any discussion about behaviour that does occur and requires help.

R0bert I suggest that you seek websites that are inclusive of both men and women - I have been reading up on the likes of Warran Farrell and Robert Bly and they are very clearly determined to place the onus for fault completely with women. Farrell even claims that single dad are better at raising kids than single women. Aside from the fact that there are more single mothers than men - this is just absurd. I believe that both sexes have the same abilities to be nurturing. I also believe that both sexes have the same propensity for abuse, HOWEVER, physical abuse is more likely to be used by men - it is far easier to swing a fist, than it is to try and reason with someone. Men are raised to be physical - women are raised to be helpless. What is needed is some balance - boys encouraged to be caring, girls encourage to be assertive rather than manipulative.

Fact is, as PALE pointed out, most violence is committed by men. Most anger management programs are for men.

Some interesting links:

http://www.menslineaus.org.au/

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/vaw/ll_vaw.nsf/pages/vaw_2006mencanstopvaw

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-testosterone-alone-doesnt-cause-violence

Cont'd

Cont'd

Another fact is, that the vast majority of men DO NOT behave aggressively to women.

But of those who do, physical violence is most commonly used to maintain dominance. I know. I have been on the receiving end of a male fist. He was of average size for a male and I am of slim build for a female - I didn't have a hope in avoiding his rages, he was too fast and too strong. The only way I could've attacked him physically was by setting an ambush. So, instead, I built up a support network of friends and with their help I moved out. I could not have done it by myself, only the presence of others kept him from assaulting me. He was always most charming when other people were around.

I guess this is why many men don't realise that their friends are violent towards their partners because many violent men hide it so well. Maybe this is why they don't speak out as Pynchme suggested, because they are not aware of it. Because I do know, from personal experience, that when good men are confronted by violent behaviour by other males, they do take action. I can recall being told after, that "I had no idea he could be that bad." To normal, caring men it is hard to believe and accept that people they work or are friends with can really be so violent. But it does happen, I have experienced it personally.

AND NO-ONE WILL EVER ASSAULT ME AGAIN. I have made very sure of that, I have had to toughen up in ways, that in a truly civilised society, I shouldn't have to.

Polycarp is right also. The quibbling about who does the most violence by Pynchme and Fractelle is disgusting. Men are the greatest victims of violence when you take into account genital mutilation, which permanently and savagely rips off parts of their sexual genitalia. Feminism as it is is so sexist that these violations, and those such as others like Robert have described, are ignored or laughed at. I can assure you that men will continue to have no sympathy for women while this gross and disgusting hypocrisy continues. The last posts simply prove that feminists have a corrupted morality and approve of rampant sexism by our Prime Minister, who should know better.

If people are assaulted by their partners they have two choices: Accept it, or not tolerate it. Life presents many tough choices and circumstances far harder than such decisions. You can either *reward* partners who like to use violence by staying with them or remaining silent (a decision many people make), or with some courage (if needed) ending the relationship and reporting their abuses to the police (or not, it's really up to the person making such a choice). As I said many people find violence acceptable up to a certain point. This is their personal decision and no one elses.