I cannot believe what I have just witnessed on TV News:

It is Magpie season again and various shots of Maggies swooping at cyclists etc, followed by a chappie titled "Wildlife Helper" who states that if called, about swooping and pecking Magpies, he will trap the "offending bird" and relocate it up to 60 klm away!

Do these clowns not realise that a nest of Magpies involves a female and a male partner! They select a site and build a nest, lay eggs, then take turns sitting until the eggs hatch. After hatching they take turns searching for food and then returning to regurgitate food for the chicks.

When the adult birds consider it safe enough, they both fly around searching for food to feed the chicks, and this continues until the chicks are mature enough to take to the air!

It should be remembered that Magpies are territorial and generally mate for life!

At any time these relatively harmless birds can recognise any threat to their nests and hatchlings and swoop and feign attack against any perceived enemy. Normally contact is not made, however like all moving objects an occasional overestimation of distance results and PANIC ensues!

These birds will NOT peck out the eyes of children, and again any contact is usaually accidental by the bird swooping too low, but is simply a bluff to frighten away perceived marauders!

The disquieting thing about this issue is that by "removing" a bird up to 60 klm away, can result in the chicks starving to death or being taken by a bird of prey!

I live in an area occupied by generations of Magpies, occasionally I have had to rear a chick as a result of accidental premature expulsion from a nest. These birds respond exceptionally well to human contact, ARE exceptionally intelligent and should be treated accordingly.

With a multitude of birds here, we have a daily feeding ritual, scrap raw meat and bread! The different families integrate well without any obvious display of malice and the young become very friendly, and breed their own families upon maturity!

Myth #1: Magpies are pair-bonded and mate for life

While some magpies do mate in pairs, many do not and in fact can be in breeding groups of up to 20 adults.

http://cals.arizona.edu/pubs/adjunct/snr0704/snr07042j.pdf

Myth #2: physical contact during an attack is always accidental.

While it is true that most attacks do not make physical contact, it is quite clear that when physical contact is made (by a relatively few number of birds) many of these are definitely non-accidental and occur in a regular pattern. (see link above)
Contact attacks often involve "hitting the intruder with its breast or wings or, more commonly, pecking the cheeks, ears or neck with the
bill at the point of closest contact. These attacks are the regular type used in attacking cyclists. Almost all of these attacks are from behind the intruder.Much less often, certain birds also attack the
intruder’s face directly from in front. Our observations and the recollections of victims suggest, very strongly, that these birds are deliberately targeting the eyes. During 1998, from a total of 453 reports (for about 430 aggressive birds), 8.5% of complainants mentioned some form of injury. All of these involved the
drawing of blood, usually from minor injuries to the neck, back, shoulders, ears or face. Thirteen complainants specified eye or near -eye injuries, and in 7 cases, the injuries resulted from children falling off bicycles while attempting to avoid the attack."

Myth #3: Removing the aggressive bird will result in the the chicks dying or being left unprotected.

This has found to not be the case.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/scribblygum/July2002/#c
And in fact it is far more preferable than shooting them, which occurs more often when removal has not even been considered.

Myth #4: Wildlife feeding will result in less aggressive behaviour towards humans.

While it does appear to be true that certain aggressive birds can be "trained" to not attack particular people that it previously regarded as a threat, this is specific to the person feeding them and doesn't carry over to humans generally.
http://books.google.com.au/books?hl=en&id=OzgLUUrAnk0C&dq=Magpie+Alert:+learning+to+live+with+a+Wild+Neighbour&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=PFr2axYnyn&sig=xsqyOwqqbYQG91IJScy2tYWta0w&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

Myth#5: "Wildlife Helpers" and animal welfare officers are clowns.

In fact, these people often know what they are doing and what the consequences of their actions are. They also do not generally advocate wildlife feeding for very good reasons.

Myth #6: Using exclamation marks at the end of every sentence adds emphasis and makes you appear completely sane.

I worship and respect the Magpie.

They would swoop my ex-husband and not me - gotta admire that. He used to abuse and physically assault me; these birds are like dogs they can detect hostility and fear. Bullies always bristle with both.

I now live in Ranges, have done so for 8 years - not once have I been attacked by Magpies.

They are very smart and all you have to do is leave them alone - although the occasional piece of 'roo is always received with magpie style gratitude.

Fractelle,
Good reason to like magpies. We have a colony here and it gets on my wick a bit to see the young, almost full grown, still calling out for their mum and dad to feed them. I like the way they fly flat out and slam air brakes on at last thing, on landing. I recall being attacked as a kid while riding my bike near a row of big pines. We never had bike helmets. Later some mothers made helmets from ice cream containers. Magpies here frequently attack eagles which is a bit like watching fighters attacking a bomber in WW2 movies.

Spur winged plovers were the worst to attack. They came fast and low from behind and cold gash with wing spur on side of head. Not to mention scare tripe out of you.

No wonder you people are such suckers for a good global warming con. You invest magpies with a character, & nature you would like them to have, & then believe it's true.

Anyone who has watched magpies will have seen then drive their male offspring off, as they mature, but long before they are mature enough to threaten the male breeder.

They will have seen them attack any magpies, other than their female ofspring, which enter their territory. They will also have seen them attack & kill any rival birds, of other species, with similar feeding habits, paritcularly butcher birds.

Stop kidding yourself about nature. Magpies don't have tax payer funded welfare. If their is not enough food in their territory, they die. The only have a territory for as long as they can defend it, & this they do, most brutally, as nature has taught them they must do.

I'm a bit more interested in the local kids, than magpies. If one were to become dangerous around here, it would not last long. A kid falling off a bike, or horse is dangerous, particularly with passing cars.

Fortunately, our magpies are friendly. At least half of the people around here feed them, intentionally, or not. "Ours" are waiting in a tree for the cat to be put out, in the morning, & fed. They will settle for what the cat leaves, but my daughter had 4 generations eating out of her hand, & I throw bits in the air, for them to take on the wing. They are quite good at it, but not a patch on the butcher birds which come for a hand out, only after the magies have left.

I like & respect magpies, but I will not have some clown tell me they are more valuable than my family, & friends. I reserve the right to defend my family, just as you suggest is the right of the magpie. So, rogue magpie, watch out around here.

With a multitude of birds here, we have a daily feeding ritual, scrap raw meat and bread! The different families integrate well without any obvious display of malice and the young become very friendly, and breed their own families upon maturity!

Yes, then you move on and the three, four, or ten generations of birds that rely on you for food are left to die as they no longer know how to hunt and survive in the real world.

Simple. Don't feed wild animals. Look at the recent dingo attack on a young child if you want proof.

I say, if they swoop and attack me, be prepared to cop a stick or cricket bat. It's my park to you know!

I'm a bit of an amateur 'twitcher' myself - I can spend hours just watching the perpetual 'bird wars' that take place in the skies and trees around our property. Of course, right now the maggies and plovers are centre stage.

Fractelle: << They would swoop my ex-husband and not me - gotta admire that. He used to abuse and physically assault me; these birds are like dogs they can detect hostility and fear. Bullies always bristle with both. >>

I have to laugh at this - we have a male maggie who I've christened "Scud" because of his swooping habits - which are only directed towards my partner, who is the gentlest , most peaceful woman I've ever known. She now gets around the garden in spring wearing some of the most outlandish protective headgear, due to his swoop attacks - and I just blithely stroll around the place bareheaded.

Many times we've tried to work out why it is that she gets swooped and I don't - maybe Scud's just a misogynist maggie, who knows?

CJ

Oh that's awful for your partner. I am sorry to hear that. However, a hat with a pair of sunnies on the back of the brim is a good idea.

But don't forget the fear factor.

I admit, I indulged in schadenfreud when my partner was attacked, he was scared of them - magpies are very good at sensing fear

Magpies are pests and should be eradicated as soon as possible from the AFL, from the baby maggies all the way up to Eddie and Malty.

socratease

Cuphandle,

Thanks for opening this thread. Yes we saw that as well. The sick dick putting the bird in a car and taking it sixty miles away.

All you have to do is feed them because they are protecting their young.
Those that have so little respect for fellow creatures or are too mean to do that of course could buy a hat.

Years ago it was a bit of fun for the kids to dodge the Mags but now they are bred to be such selfish winging little brats.

Its not their fault of course its the stupid parents.

You only need to read your own thread to varify that.

We waited for RSPCA National to speak up about this ranger or parks and wild life - was it? who took this bird 60 miles from its family.

If you can recall who moved his bird we would appreciate the heads up and we will ask what training is required to work in this area.

Again thanks for starting this thread. Its good to know others were just as outraged as us.

A question to RSPCA National=Do you see this doc on TV where the bird was removed 60 ks from its family.

If you did why didnt you respond and educate the public about the tight knit family unit these birds have.

We rely on RSPCA to educate the public and this was one of the many times you could and should have spoken up.

Pale:

I am pretty sure the programme was either "Today Tonight" or "A Current Affair" in Qld and it was aired on the evening of Thursday 18th September.

I find it so hard to accept that there are so many people out there who have such a negative attitude towards Magpies, birds or other species of wildlife, as has been indicative by most of the responses to this Thread so far!

Maybe these people resent sharing their own selfish little worldly environment with other creatures of nature and will all be much happier when, as David Suzuki stated with words to the effect: "When the last fish is caught,the last tree chopped down, and the last beast is slaughtered, ....man will find it impossible to eat money for his survival!" ( words to that effect, but making the point about man`s selfish destruction of all the planet`s natural resources!)

It should be noted that David Suzuki has gone very quiet in recent times and I suspect that he has simply given up trying to emphasize man`s folly in relation to environmental destruction and is now concentrating on caring for his own immediate family!

Cuphandle

"I find it so hard to accept that there are so many people out there who have such a negative attitude towards Magpies, birds or other species of wildlife, as has been indicative by most of the responses to this Thread so far!"

You've had two negative responses that I can see. That hardly equates to 'most' of them.

For the record I'm definitely another birdlover We're in a treed area and have a large native garden which attracts many varieties of birds, my particular favourite being the kookaburras.

I share your concern about the removal of the magpies, though I guess it's preferable to having them shot at, as Bugsy alluded to.

I have heard you shouldn't feed birds bread. I can't remember the exact reason why but it affects their health in some way.

Oh, and if you must feed them, feed them raw meat only. But don't feed mince from the supermarket, it has preservatives in it that are suspected in eggshell thinning, make sure it's preservative-free.

Cuphandle,Bronwyn

Thanks for that information Cup handle. I guess in that case I have been a bit slack if it was in my own turf. I only got to see some of it as others came flying outside to call me.

I can assure you Bronwyn is correct about most people no approving.
By opening this thread you have raised it again to our intention.
We will try to get a copy of it from the station and view it at a world animal day being held on the Gold Coast next Sunday.

I will also ask RSPCA to make a comment on this and invite the rangers( or the department of parks and rangers to explain? their actions and why dont they run education programes telling people to simply feed these nesting birds. (A check on their wild life training is also I order I should think.)

Bronwyn
Another thing i would like to see RSPCA National office spear head is educating our city councils to put bird watering fountains in our parks.

I am also a bit sick and tied of no signs around our ponds where we have dams reading =.
Parents pls make sure your children DO NOT CHASE the ducks and Swans in our ponds
THANK YOU!
Well done Cuphandle we owe you one!

Regarding the feeding of birds, does anyone know whether there are any problems in putting out seed for them? We were given a feed tray as a gift and I put seed out on it a couple of times a week. I sometimes wonder though whether I'm doing the right thing by the birds or not.

Bronwyn

I live in the Yarra Ranges and my seat at the PC looks out onto bushland, for a long time I put out seed for the Rosellas and King Parrots, but six months ago cockatoos started to arrive, apart from being very big birds, they live in communities of 30 or more birds and can be very destructive. Consequently, I stopped leaving feed out regularly. If I spy my regular King Parrots I give them a small quantity, so that there is nothing left for the cockatoos and believe me, a cockatoo checks in regularly.

The Shire council has requested residents not to feed any of the parrots as the cockatoos have reached almost plague proportions.

For magpies and kookaburras, I feed fresh diced roo (beef is ok too) - no preservatives as Bugsy explained. Again I do this on an occasional basis - at one stage I was being stalked where ever I went by a couple of kookaburras; opening the front door and being face-to-face with a bright-eyed kookaburra first thing in the morning really brings on the adrenalin.

In conclusion, my advice is very occasional feeds, small quantities. Of course the correct procedure is not to feed them at all, but I love the interaction I have with all animals.

Cheers

Bronwyn, Fractelle,
I think in these conditions of droughts it’s very important to put water out.
Quite some time ago we held talks with a head on National Parks and wildlife.
After a long drawn out debate it was finally agreed it would be sensible for park rangers to put out water and feed wherever they could.
The last I heard was he was going to present this idea at a meeting.
I must admit a lot of time has passed and I haven’t chased it up.
Its only common sense throughout Australia given the lack of feed and water we help in the bush and the city.

Its not rocket science. No water, no feed, no wildlife. I did write to RSPCA National head office several years ago suggesting they put out a plea by way of media R to all councils in Australia to put bird watering containers in a reasonable high position in their parks etc.

Getting back to Magpies it is only the arrogant people who don’t appreciate the wonderfully clever birds.

I once had a pet Maggie, who of course I named Mag. He had been hit by a car and would never have made it in the bush.

He knew everybody who entered the property and talked like a woman chatting to the next door neighbor hanging out the washing. He was also very protective of our housekeeper’s young child.
Whenever anybody came near he didn’t know he would run to her side and stop strangers from getting too close to the bub.

Once when she fell over in the yard. He rushed in screaming and running back and forth until her mother came.
It’s a pity we were not all as protective of their babies as they are ours.
The human race could learn a lot from these birds.

I think this should be part of our education in schools

Thanks Fractelle and PALEIF

I do only put out a small quantity and it's not there for them on a regular basis so it seems I mightn't be doing any harm. The main birds it seems to attract are king parrots, pale-headed rosellas and bar-shouldered doves.

The perching area is quite small so that probably precludes the cockatoos. Our neighbours have a much larger tray and it does attract the cockatoos but fortunately not in troublesome proportions. We're in Queensland and my feeling is they don't often reach the plague-like numbers that they can in Victoria, or certainly not where we are. A couple of times a year the black cockatoos move in and demolish the flowerheads on the wallum banksias, but then they're gone.

The only food we actually give to the kookaburras is a worm here and there when we're gardening. We only need to have a spade or fork in our hand and we soon have a kookaburra or two sitting patiently on the ground beside us watching our every move!

I agree with the need for providing water. If you have it at a reasonble depth it makes a great bath for them too and adds to the entertainment value.

Fractelle - "..my seat at the PC looks out onto bushland.."

So does mine. It is just the best outlook, don't you think - so peaceful and calming. I've just upgraded to a more comfortable chair too. I think I'm in real danger of becoming addicted to this little space!

Wouldnt it be nice to start a thread about all the wonderful moments we have shred with our wildlife and animals.

Something happy for a change and hopefully a way to encourage others to think a little more about birds and animals in general.


Its so good to know there are people like Bronwyn , Fractelle and yourself about.
One last quick run down on how smart these birds are. Twice a day I go to feed the horses. Its big acerage with a river flat but its partly on the corner of a busy highway.

The very second the car turns in there they are- blop onto the gate before you have had time to turn the key off.

Then they follow you around like dogs as you fix the feed and head off to the water troff.

Every year you can watch the family grow as the Mums bring along the young ones.

Sometimes mum goes crook on them for getting two close to the horses legs.

Then I come back and do it all over again at the house with Lorys and all sorts.

Its a ritual and dont think they dont know your late on Sundays as they peck peck tap tap on your window where your are sleeping but wouldnt have it any other way.

There is no reason to be scared of these birds because they are so smart and gentle.

All people have to do is befriend them .I dont think people appreciate things sometimes until there are gone and I couldnt imagine waking up and not hearing the birds in the trees each morning.

Enjoy your chairs ladies as you both have the gift of understanding what important in life!

Pale,Bronwyn,Fractelle:

Isn`t it refreshing to be able to discuss the joys and the attributes of the natural wildlife that choose to share their environment with us?

It certainly brings a ray of sunshine to a world that seems to be dominated by power, greed and hatred.

We people that inhabit the rural areas are truly lucky that we have the time and the opportunity to appreciate the finer things in life,...things that the average city-dweller never gets to see or appreciate as he or she rushes backwards and forwards in the maelstrom of modern day living.

I have two young maggies ( not coloured-up yet ) sitting outside in the trees singing their little hearts out! They are real characters who never miss a trick, are sticky-beaks (pun), and have to be part of the action regardless of what is occurring outside, be it gardening, car maintenance or whatever.

It is amazing to watch these "wild" creatures, playing "dead" or rolling backwards and forwards as they entertain each other in their daily time-passing rituals. ....Like children it is a shame to see them grow up and face the world of maturity and become staid and serious in their own breeding pattern, leaving behind their own simple and carefree lifestyle as nature takes it`s natural course.

"Ain`t nature wonderful!"

Like Bronwyn, I could sit here all day watching the soap-opera that soars around my window.

This time of year is extra entertaining with the demands of young birds and territorial struggles. I find it hilarious to watch a tiny wren chase off a couple of magpies - unbelievable.

My King parrot couple actually cling to the window frame and stare directly in at me - that was how they got me feeding them in the first place. Rosellas don't seem to be as smart about windows though.

I hope everyone enjoys the following cartoon:

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/nq/2008/nq080930.gif

Cheers

"Enjoy your chairs ladies as you both have the gift of understanding what important in life!"

Ah, PALEIF, I love that! I'll keep your words firmly in mind next time I'm moved to guilt at hubby's little digs about the amount of time I spend in this chair!

"Isn`t it refreshing to be able to discuss the joys and the attributes of the natural wildlife that choose to share their environment with us?"

I agree, Cuphandle. Your thread is a welcome little haven, down near the bottom of the list, that I can retreat to with joy after having battled my OLO opponents on feminism, religion, refugees, Wall Street collapses and all the other weighty issues of our world! I similarly enjoyed escaping down to Pelican's thread at one stage when Forrest took it over and wrote a wonderful OLO epic, chapter by chapter, with Fractelle as the leading lady.

It's great to have a warm and light-hearted thread, at the bottom of the discussion list, to escape to at the end of a harrowing session of OLO debating! Thanks for providing us with this one.

One of the things I miss most about my life here in China is the lack of wildlife.

Next to the college I was teaching at this summer in Cambridge was a large strip of fen land which was given to the town 800 years ago upon which to graze their "beasts". On my second morning there some fellow teachers went into stitches at the sight of me, at 6 in the misty morning, tightly hugging a cow and whispering sweet nothings into its bewildered and fly-bedecked ear.

I had to explain that it was three years since I had had that warm contact with a species other than the human one, and the smell and texture of living animals is something I missed greatly.

For the first time in my life even dogs run away from me here because we foreigners, with dairy in our diet, smell strange to them. (Ditto for babies which bawl loudly when you approach!)It saddens me unutterably.

At times I think longingly of gold and orange sunsets in Caloundra or Bribie where the trees come alive with hundreds and hundreds of green and pink and yellow birds all shrieking bedtime instructions at each other, or of my own maggies who would sit on my verandah railing whistling a South African ditty I had taught them.

Enjoy, people, enjoy - entirely free of guilt. We shouldn't ever run the risk of taking any of this for granted: - it defines the quality of our lives and adds the colour to it.