Following on from Polycarp's thread about 'shallow marriages' and Roberts comment at the end of that, I too have had some thoughts about the way we go about selecting a long term mate.

I am convinced that many young people fall in 'lust' first of all. If one is lucky, like me, this lust turns into love for each other and a good compatable long term relationship developes.

If we accept that most couples are firstly attracted by physical appearances and want to be together, then why not a proper 'engagement' where they do actually engage by living together. Maybe for a period of say 12 months minimum before entering into a long term commitment, either by marriage of de facto. If they find they are not suited together they seperate, each taking their own belongings and no repurcussions. If they are together for,say, 5 years and/or children are born to them, then separate, then the family court or other tribunal helps decide who gets what.

I would like to know what others think and if there are factors I have not considered.

There must have been many unhappy marriages in the past and the current divorce rate is high. Is our traditional courtship proceedures failing?

In many instances this 'engagement,may be happening now and is there a need to promote such a process?

Hi Banjo
I think such an arrangement can only be sustained by a 'cultural' framework... but agree it's a good thing. I'd probably not go for 12 months though.. mayb 3 to 6 max.

I think the best approach is for the framework to provide opportunity for the couple to get to know each other in as many authentic life situations as possible.

-Is he/she tidy
-Do they have blatant opposite views about important things
-How do they react or act socially.
-Common and uncommon interests.
-Family background...

A marraige is something where all of those things have impact.

If possible, the sexual should not figure during courtship.. because they will absolutely know if they are turned on by each other and the mechanics can be worked out once together fully. They can discuss it prior to coming together.

I've not seen a really high success rate on all that though.

Polycarp,
I disagree with your opinion about sex not being an issue during courtship. Lets face it, for most young people, their sexuality is very dominant and I do not see anything wrong in a courting couple having sex. Years ago when there were no methods of contraception available, denial of sex was understandable. Even then dispite threats of eternal damnation and 'sins of the flesh' etc. many couples still engaged in premaritial sex, as family historians have shown by the time of birth of the couples first born.

My idea of an engagement by a couple living together is to enable much sexual activity so that the lust factor is reduced and, hopefully, after some time a more rational assesment can be made by the couple regarding their long term compatability. I would not encourage having children during this engagement period.

I have not seen any research to support this, but i think it is a big ask for young people not to engage in sex from the time of pubity until their education is finalised and they get married.

Dear Banjo,

Do our traditional courtship ideas need to
change? They already have.
Although our culture encourages people
to look for "romantic love,"
(which is warmly endorsed by
books, magazines, popular songs, movies and
TV). Today, young people are opting for
individual choices, and many are opting
for cohabitation.

Cohabitation has some similarities with
marriage in that the partners have considerable
affection for, and commitment to, one another,
and their sexual relationship is usually an
exclusive one. This is a test of compatibility
before taking the plunge into married life
(in fact, only about a third of cohabiting couples
do eventually marry, most of the rest separate
within two or three years).

The following website may be of interest:

http://www.civitas.org.uk/hwu/cohabitation.php

It doesn't present a very positive picture.
Perhaps the question we should be asking is,
"Should we return to our traditional courtship
ideas?"

Foxy,
Thanks for that link and you are right as it does not paint a very positive picture. However the article was written in England and in the references there was an S Sarantakos, whom I found to be a Ass Prof of Sociology at Charles Sturt Uni. He has written quite a lot of both books and articles so I'll see what my library has of his works.

I would have thought that after living together for a year or so, a couple should be better placed to make a long term committment if they are suited. This may not be the case, at least in England and will be interesting to see what our stats are. Am pretty sure the Prof would have stats if I can find them.

I read somewhere that people these days do not expect to stay in the same job forever, so maybe it is the same with relationships. I also notice that many people seem to want new things almost constantly and are not prepared to stick with something. Not many of our Olympic athletes would be at the top if they were not prepared to stick at it.

Long term relationships do not just happen, it has to be worked on with give and take and compromize. Seems many have a hissy and leave before the first hurdle. That sounds like selfishness

Quiting at the 'first' hurdle isn't necessarily selfish. Perhaps it just reflects the fact that in a world where everyone is playing relationship 'musical chairs' there's always another option. Though its quite different from the romantic ideal we were mostly taught growing up, I'm not sure there's anything really wrong with it (the children issue aside).

Perhaps the whole institution of marriage should sensibly be looked upon as the outdated remnant of bygone times when "til death do us part" typically meant no more than 25 years, and being miserable was an accepted part of life.

From what I observe in both my own life and the lives of those around me, a lot of people have happy fullfilling relationships for three to five years, but after that, the relationships resemble nothing more than comfortable arrangements. Affection, passion, attraction and conversation are all gone and all that's left is the comfort of familiarity and a common past. Couples at that stage start to find each other boring and/or irritating and the rot sets in.

Those marriages I've seen which seem to last are ones where the parties are supportive of each other financially, emotionally, etc, but where they don't make their spouse the centre of their day to day lives. They each seem to largely do their own things. Whilst the longevity of these marriages is impressive, the certainly don't fit any romantic ideal I grew up with.

Just my two cents.