yeah right on
why should those developing countries have any rights to improve their life style if it's going to upset good honest people like nationalist_conservative and hasbeen, bloody hell whats the world coming to.
They should all return their humpies and thank their gods that at least there are those with the wisdom and money to dig all this stuff up and make a profit that will eventually benefit them come tax dodging time.

Ryechus, thats right mate, I mean the Stern report is more political than scientific as someone has already said. We can't have politics interferring with environmental issues and science.

If the scientists don't tell us what we want to hear, sack them and buy ones that will tell us what we want to hear. We want them to tell us that there is no global warming, Australia is not suffering from drought and drastic water shortages, and we are not running out of food.

John Howard is right to fob this hysteria off as "hysteria" knowing full well that later successions of government that will pay the price of his ignorance and inactivity. Bugger the future, lets spend up now

the problem i have with these discussions is that after marshalling those facts which support your assertions, all of you are content with saying:" so there!"

as it should be, for none of you has any power to actually do things.

if australia were an actual democracy you would not be in the iraq war,you would have a sustainable national environment policy, and your hospitals and schools would be funded to raise competent and healthy future generations.

but you are not citizens of a democracy, no matter what lies you are continually plied with- you are political cattle, the taxpaying and consuming "subjects" of australian oligarchy.

just compare your role to that of a sheep in a paddock- not much difference, eh?

and the humor of it is, most of you identify with your masters like a housebred slave, saying: "we were right/wrong to go to war with iraq", as though anyone ever asked you.

It is odd there is now a panic about greenhouse gas which must be addressed.
It is an elephant in the next room, so why are people including pollies ignoring the elephant in this room ?

Peak Oil is literally upon us now, oil production rate is down over 500,000 barells a day from last years figures.
Demand is up so it could cross the production curve anytime.
Probably the fall in oil production will have a larger effect than any Kyoto agreement.
The measures that need to be taken to mitigate peak oil will also help with CO2.
Any depression caused by warming will be much later than the one caused by peak oil.
Measures to be taken should be;
Increase petrol tax & devote the funds to rail improvement.
Put a sliding sales tax on vehicles, better milage lower tax.
This will act faster than any Kyoto agreement.

Alas, the Stern report has not caught Howard with his pants down. With his usual astuteness, Howard will use this situation to his advantage.
On the one hand, Howard will downplay the urgency of climate change – saying that we need a gradualist approach. In this, he’ll call on that pathetic little grouping of 6 countries, led by U.S.A. to put up an alternative strategy to Kyoto, (with its 154 countries) and thus continue to promote the fossil fuel industries.
On the other hand, Howard will agree that climate change is real, thus gaining approval from the majority of voters. This will also allow him to promote the nuclear industry, selling it as an answer to climate change. A few token and showy efforts will be made to promote renewable energy, while pushing nuclear power, big projects, and steering attention away from energy efficiencies and decentralised renewable energy methods.
Christina Macpherson www.antinuclearaustralia.com

I agree with you completely, I can see no reason at all why the chineese & indians should be expected to limit their economic growth, or their aspirations for a better life. I don't think I said they should.
What I said was that Kyoto was a way to limit ours, & thats a bit unfair to our younger generations. Just how much pay cut are you prepared to take to see Kyoto in place? Thats what it means, & your kidding your self, if you think it does not. Of course, you may be a public servant, & expect that government will provide. Well, thats what they are trying to do.
Without our mineral exports, were headed for the "poor white trash of asia", & its not what I'd like to see for my grandkids.
Without our competitive advantage, there is no way you can be paid more than your chinese, or indian, equivalent. Is that what you want?
I realy wish that, well meaning people would think their arguments, right through, to their logical conclusions.
We can have our standard of living, or sign Kyoto. You can'y have both.
We are going to have a large drop in our living standards, due to chinese, & indian competition, with out tying our hands behind our backs to start with.
Just what do you want to leave to your grandkids?.