Haygirl

I'm sorry I have to disagree with you. I normally think you make a lot of sense).

You had worse experiences as a fostered child than as an orphanage girl. And on that basis, it's understandable that you advocate the return to so-called orphanages.

I personally did time in three orphanage and three foster families aged 2-15. The foster families were OK - except for the one who took us back to the orphanage after nine days 'because of their habits' - I was two years old!). The orphanages were sheer misery every way you look at them.

But swapping personal stories doesn't solve anything. You've got to look at the bigger picture (e.g the CLAN Survey 2007 and the Forgotten Australians Senate report which I gave reference to earlier in this thread).

The irrefutable facts are these: almost all orphanages were hell-holes for children. Only some foster families were hell for children. We know from the hundreds of bleak stories submitted to the Senate inquiry (Forgotten Australians 2004) that lumping together hundreds, even just scores, of children is a recipe for life-long disaster.

You think orphanages can be changed 'with better control and more stringent checks on the staff and their treatment of the children'. Harder to do than better control and more stringent checks of foster families. Orphanage children being interviewed by outside supervisors periodically without the staff of those orphanages being present? What a farce that would be.

Who would interview the under 6s? Would they know that having your genitals rubbed prodded and tugged was exploitation and abuse? If a teenager complained of rape would there be water-tight guarantees of no pay-backs? What if the staff gang up and deny all claims and then make allegations that the teenager has exhibited signs of significant mental illness with hallucinations and frequent self-harming?

I'm really sorry that you firmly believe that bringing back orphanages is 'the only way'. It's a bit like saying bringing back child labour is the only way to keep kids off the streets.

Haygirl, thanks for your contribution. Its certainly interesting to see your perspective. I think the relative success of day care centres shows that mass childcare doesnt have to be a disaster. Perhaps childcare can play a role in helping to regulate both foster homes and potentially "orphanages". Children who were in foster homes might benefit from exposure to larger groups of kids in centres, while I would bet that kids who were institutionalised would benefit from attending family daycare, and mixing with kids from "normal" families. Strange behaviour of preschoolers and toddlers would help to pickup potential abuse issues (eg inappropriate touching of themselves of other children, or not "sufficient" concern for privacy), and longterm family daycare would help provide more emotional support for institutionalised children (again I am referring to preschoolers here, where they are less able to express themselves). A mix of situations might help give us the best of both worlds.

Spikey,i see your point but i can only speak from personal experience.I am also a member of Clan and have read all the reports re abuse in homes.I had numerous foster parents and can count 7 orphanages that i was in according to my welfare files.Sure the punishments were sometimes unjust but i was never inappropriately touched in any of those orphanages.I have friends who were locked in cupboards etc whilst in foster care.I still believe that properly supervised orphanages need to be reinstated.Let the younger ones go to day care where unusual behaviour may be noticed and reported.With the proper checks and balances i believe they would work.Maybe a few of our street children would find orphanges a better place to live than on the streets where they often resort to crime or prostitution to survive.This is not an easy problem to fix but times have changed and maybe their would be more accountability re the staff supervising those places.

haygirl,

I respect your point-of-view. I think we'll both have to agree to disagree on this one.

Instead, let's make the agenda the total abolition of all sexual and other forms of abuse and neglect of vulnerable children wherever they are being raised.

One of the best ways of doing this is through thorough and paid professional training and mandatory qualifications for all people who work with children. And regular refresher courses to give them a break while they upgrade their skills and knowledge.

Another is to recruit top-notch people into what is often regarded as low grade work - caring for children (whether it be in foster families, youth detention centres, orphanages, schools, scouts etc).