Are Christians becoming so obsessed with morality that they are ignoring compassion?

A few examples of this are the recent controversies involving nude pictures of children as opposed to the children in our society who don't have sufficient warm clothing. (A comment I put on another post).

I hear Christians saying how dreadful it is to have the Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras, but I see little compassion from Christians in regards to gay bashings and AIDS.

Then we have all sorts of scandals in the church involving people in positions of leadership committing adultery and abusing children.

Have Christians got their priorities wrong?

Dear Steel Mann,

I can only speak from my observances of
the Catholic Church. It unfortunately
does not display much compassion. It
excludes...

It's leaders speak about morality. But
this modern world needs more than just
words.

As I wrote in another post, it's all very well
to espouse the importance of God. But it's
exclusion to talk only about
the "One True God."

The same goes for carrying on traditions of caring,
love, honesty, decency, justice, a fair go.
Speaking about these things,is not enough,
especially when the Church
chooses to exclude those that may really need them.

Talking about morality, and not living it -
is something that the Church needs to address,
and quickly, if it wants to keep the hundreds of
thousands of young adults that it is attracting
to World Youth Day in Sydney.

These young adults will not stay long term -
if words don't lead to actions by the Church.

All the way through the Holy Bible we are told not to engage homosexual behaviour, magic, drunkenness, etc right up to the very end of John's Revelation e.g. verse 21:8.
Obeying Gods Commandments is not at all showing a lack of compassion. Our compassion is to point all men and women, lead them in prayer, to Jesus as their Saviour and to repentence of their sin so they dont get the adverse Judgment after death.
Click on Mary K. Baxters journey to hell.
Compassion yes...but obey just the same.
Good Bible-believing christians hate watered down doctrine.

In the last couple of years there was an incident in Saudi Arabia where a girl's school was on fire, and many of the girls were killed when they were ordered back into the burning building because they weren't appropriately dressed according to Muslim custom. This incident horrified the Western world, and probably a lot of Muslims as well. My concern is that there are Christians who are just as bad.

Gibo, Christian morals are for Christians to adhere to. Christ never commanded us to force our moral standards on anyone. He commanded us to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. My attitude is that when my life is perfect, without sin, then I can throw stones.
It was religious people that had the most problems with Jesus. The Pharasees in the Bible were not intentionally evil people. They actually had a desire to serve God. They could be compared to today's fundamentalist Christians such as Fred Nile.

I liked the way the apostle Paul spoke to the Corintians about their many false Gods. They even had an alter to an unknown god. Paul used wisdon here and decided the unknown God was the one he needed to tell them about.

christ would be crying
what is this turn the other cheek meaning
kill iran
fight war's
suppress FREE energy
suppress the cure for cancer FOR MONEY?

govt [and christians ] are being decieved [as well as decievers]
ONE GOD GIVES ALL THEIR LIVES
murder by war takes it AWAY
murder is NOT the christ way!

what do you strain morality yet swallow the CAMel
El came but you want more war
EL came but you want more special intrest
[ye money changers
look what is suppressed FOR LOVE OF MONEY]
free energy
real healing
govt representation[accountability]
try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGZ2tRY4kY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-ulOvJl46U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqBWk9YRu7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czZ9kn70Y7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu8LaVH-pn0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6YYUOx6fBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxZR4C9gqOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgrDdJotz0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8PId_6xec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHh5AqQ4_xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Lnhs7caCo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-O7WNvKSvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrMcBHGMZzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCjM-ZOqQF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTr3ZgKwsiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXv6sO52xFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAiTv0IpHWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0FhADUZjx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLev-ijMLME

as to how try this as to why they are being kept from our kids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21D3ATgMHuE
http://www.youtube.com/watchv=zp_XHfylwPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4RZqQujqDQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YnnTzyidNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGhPgEDcKXI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v76amxA9x1cA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6uTy9Uq0K0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSBxEZoNfQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_APNsERXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLqw59XfG04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLR7-jdF3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14yDP0GKrUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muQRIUVd6Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kp24ZeHtv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_MHVw1Zz-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLzUNDaF00U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9MQ88NEO7Q

well
we could nationalise 'big oil [and big pharma
to free up our childrens minds
[then join the suppressed research to gether [AND HEAL THE WORLD}

but we wont [cause we cant]
because we arnt allowed to see the big picture
[because of privatised proffit's]

we are spending billions subsidising these multinationals with our taxes [every week ]

billions spent pills and potions that dont cure us
clearly big BUISNESS lobby is paid to stay on top of this info
to ridicule it where they can
or suppress it where they cant

but for the alternative of [free] energy
that is based on science

that your regular scientists are forbidden to explore
that of which you speak is thus unspeakable
so

[why are they controlled and owned by the same cartel's"]

[and are making us sicker ,by treating the symptom
[BUT NEVER actually even allowed to cure THE DISEASE]
why
because they have an active lobby
YOU have LET special decievers buy out govt AND MEDIA

Youre lukewarm Steel Mann.
Youre happy to love thy neighbour but not obey The Lords Commandments not to sin.
I'll talk to you again when youre on fire... fully... for The Lord and His Holy Bible and all it says...and have taken youre willy out of the wind.
Nudist christians count for nothing.
Dont pick on Fred Nile either...he's the best politician we've had in decades.
About the only one who stands up for holiness...anywhere.

Morality or Compassion?

No Christianity is an anomoly. Great goods and horrific bads achieved. St Francis to Hitler.

It is commonly practised on fourth century establishment dogma based on the life of an individual whom was breaking with de-establishment [Jewish]first century dogma. Besides, there are several Christianities, some secular & some religious; some Christian-Jewish, some Jewish-Christian. Even post Nicaea, there are schisms and re-interpretations. Wars and conflicts on turns-of-phase or a word "Filioque" [from the Son] and transubstantiaion.

I don't think you can generalise about Christians just as you cannot generalise about Muslims or any other group. Groups are made up of individuals who might agree and disagree on many issues including Henson. Previous threads have shown that some Christians approved of Henson's photos for example, and some atheists like myself disapproved.

The sexual exploitation of children for profit is not ostensibly a religious issue but a socio-economic one.

While some might believe that art is privy to a different set of rules than the rest of society there are some that believe art to be for all. Artists should not be separated as an elite group devoid of any responsibilities.

Freedom is a choice made on where the line sits between rights and responsibilities.

Do not forget this moral debate involved the use of children in art, it was not about nudity in art as a general sense. It is easy to dismiss the importance of this issue by blurring and detracting from the real issues at play.

Gibo,
If you knew some of the Christians I know that are in the Nudist movement, (but didn't know about their nudist activities) you would probably think what wonderful men and women of God they are. They represent many denonimations and include ordinary church members, deacons, elders and pastors. I don't profess to be a perfect Christian (who is?) I don't like to pass judgement on others, although the Pharasee Christians really do rub me up the wrong way. (ie the "Holier than thou" brigade, which you appear to be a member).

The problem that too many people have is comparing nudity with sex. It's like saying a dog is an animal with four legs and a tail. My cat has four legs and a tail so therefore my cat must be a dog. On the same comparison, if people have sex in the nude, nude people must be having sex.

Nudity is not forbidden in the Bible. In fact on at least one occaision (Isaiah) God commanded it.

Anyway, I didn't start this thread to discuss Christianity and nudity. I started it to discuss the issue of Christian morality and compassion. I was inspired to start this thread following a train trip home a couple of weeks ago where an 11 year old runaway child (who had been missing for four days) was in my carraige. I didn't know she was missing because the media was more concerned about a naked 6 year old girl on a magazine cover and didn't report anything on the missing 11 year old girl.

PS: I should add that I agree that compassion is not the domain of the religious. In fact often a strong religious belief may come at the expense of compassion.

The most extreme example is those that would kill in the name of their God at the expense of the lives of other human beings. Such as those that might murder a doctor for performing an abortion or a religious zealot advocating the death penalty. So the issue becomes not about killing but who is allowed to die as dictated by the zealot's own self-serving interpretation of their God's law.

Thanks Pelican for your input,
I set up this thread for both Christians and the non-religious, in your case athiest.
I wanted to see how the non-religious/non Christian/ athiest perceives us, and at the same time I wanted to challenge Christians. I'm not suggesting that Christians should abandon their moral standards, but sometimes they need to use wisdom in their judgement. A good example of this is the situation which occurred a few years ago when a doctor was performing an abortion in a hospital, but something went wrong, and another doctor in the hospital refused to help because he was a Christian, and therefore put the woman's life at risk because of his anti abortion stand. Don't get me wrong, I hate abortion, but this is one occasion when compassion should overide morality.

I agree, however it is not new. There is a great distinction between ethics and morals. Dogma's do not breed good ethics, and for those who require dogma to have morals then their innate ethics are bankrupt.

Too many fight against abortion rather than trying to stop the innocent slaughter of children in Iraq, too many fear the human body's natural nudity and ignore the actual crimes being committed on children, a great number by church groups.

Too many fight against equal rights (they used their good book to uphold slavery, too uphold discrimination against women and now use it against gay people) rather than fighting for them.

The atheists I know have far greater compassion and ethics than any of the christians I know.

I wonder where people go when they are in need of compasion?

I am a member of a service organisation to Children in war-torn and poverty stricken countries called "Compassion". It is an international organisation that has millions of sponsors that supply essential food, clothing, schooling to deprived and orphan children in these situations. The Wotofa childrens choir is a product of such a ministry. This is an organisations run by the Churches.

The impression that the Churches lack compassion is because those who make this statement have not been involved in Christian ministry

Hello Philo,

You know where I stand on matters of religion: My histographical & scientific studies support said beliefs to the degree of a being degraded heuristic only. That is, the positive heuristical non-existence is stronger.

Yet, I have written pro bono educational programmes for Third World countries. My biggest problem was politics, e.g., when Myanmar [Burma] went into ASEAN, Germany, as a member of the EU, cut of fares & accommodation funding to lecturers. Nonetheless, I let the German Chamnbers of Commerce have the work for free, pending the ending of the political sanctions.

Morality and Compassion are indepedent constructs to belief, I posit.

Hope this post finds you well & happy.

Regards,

O.

Thank's Oliver for your greeting.

Morality is the basis of a societies principles for cooperative function of good behaviour. Immorality is the opposite behaviour that breaks down values of good social function.

Compassion is the selfless sacrifice of one for the wellbeing of the deprived, helpless or undeserving. That is the basis of the Christian Gospel. The gospel is the acts of grace that offers forgivness to the unrepentant opponent.

Dear friends

if we wish to define something, usually if there is a definative text on the subject available... we would consult it.

In this case it is the Bible.

The 'believers' were first called 'Christians' at Antioch..by the pagans.

They were disciples of Jesus.

They will be characterized by the range of emotions and actions found in Christ.

-Righteous anger.
-Rebuking of evil.
-Compassion for the helpless. (not the deliberately self made variety)
-Humility
-Love.. for both the unbeliever and the believer.

Love NEVER means 'agree'.. it might just as well mean 'disagree'.

Ooops..I think I committed a sin :) I'm sure that will cause someone who disagrees with my statement then to claim I "hate" them...aah..but that's life.

John the Baptist came neither eating or drinking.. and they said "He has a demon"

Jesus came eating and drinking and they said "A glutton and a drunkard"

How much more of my self :)

Gluttonistic demon possessed nutter!

"Christianity" above all else is 'Relationship'... and the Morals come out of that relationship, but they do exist separately.. in the Law of Moses and the ethics of Jesus.

Is society becoming so obsessed with 'compassion' that it can't make hard
decisions?

'Compassion' nowadays has become a euphemism for - don't hold me
responsible for my decisions, or lack of decisions .

A few examples of this are:
* people don't take-out insurance –a bush fire wipes them out – the community is asked to be compassionate & pay their bills
* people arrive illegally on our shores, after having bribed, lied, burnt their papers, & jumped queues – the community is told to show compassion and take them in.
* People choose to smuggle drugs or fight infidels & are caught-out –the community is told to show compassion and bail them out.

Compassion is not pricelss,someone -often everyone, except the compasionee,pays.

I have always thought the steadfast son in the prodigal son parable got a bad deal. The - compassion - shown the prodigal short-changed the steadfast son

Horus,
Justice demands payment, deprivation or sacrifice for misdeeds.
Compassion offers forgivness to the repentant of their misdeeds.
(Repentance = change of mind and behaviour)
While the offender continues to practises social disorder and believes his / her misdeeds are acceptable behaviour there can be no settlement of justice. They must continue to pay the price. The person who changes behavioural practise after the price has been met must be shown compassion (forgivness). Forgivness is not effective to those who continue to violate social order.

However forgivness must be offered for past misdeeds on the basis that the price has been paid.

Morality
Thou shalt not establish behaviours or values contrary to good social order.
Thou shalt show devoted respect for the highest of ideals of God's character.

Thou shalt not take the life of another resultant from foolishness, for envy, anger or revenge,
Thous shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not take without just payment the property of another.
Thou shalt not give false witness against another.
Thou shalt not live with a jealousy attitude of others property.

All these are established practises of an ordered and good functioning society

Philo,

I agree there is much positive morality and compassion presented in the the Gospels. The Sermon of the Mount, a prime example.

One quality missing, perhaps, in the modern Christian Church is humility. One does not see too Bishops working two days a week coal-face withe the indigent as reported of the Essenes (?) in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I don't see, say, Cardinal Pell donning overalls and cleaning a toilet for a park for the homeless.

Polycarp,

Hi David. How is is Jesse?

The period between the crucifixation and Nicaea we see an evolving religion. Jesus' alleged sacrafice has been posited by some believers, as a break with the Law of Moses, while remaing a Jewish religion. In effect we had Christian-Jews and I have mentioned to you in sevral posts there were fifteen Bishops of Jerusalem before Marcus the first non-Jewish bishop, whom formed a new religion to overcome the Hadrian's excile of, if you like, Jewish-Jews :-) from the Temple Mount. [Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire]

For me, it is strange that Christian priests, ministers mention Augustus, Tiberius and Nero: mere backdrops. Yet, the most significant figure moving the Nazarines from Pella towards Nicaea was the sixteenth [Gentile] Bishop of Jerusalem's [in excile] response to Hadrian edict.

We move over three hundred years from the tether to Moses to the de-establishment of the Law owing to the alleged perfect justification [of Jesus] making the aforemention redundant ,to the re-establishment of dogma under the Council of Nicaea in 325 [via a half council in 190 and, a consolidation of the Trinity at Constantinople in 381].

The above is why I feel Church should be an open forum. Else, one has the priest/minister selecting the chocolates to eat and dashing between the rain drops of history.