How about we cut the dole from 'unlimited' too say, 1 year of lifetime eligibility and funnel those funds into helping out the farming community and the elderly. Currently the suicide rate in rural communities is getting out of hand as is the quality of life for elderly.

New-start is a benefit for individuals who are able to be in the workforce but currently not working. Should the lifetime eligibility be 1 year, or whatever to free up funds for people in need?. If you are able bodied but not employed for extended periods then you may be in need of further psychological assistance or reclassifying into a disabled benefit.

There are definitely areas where unemployment is disproportionate to the whole country and quite obviously situations like that need to be taken into consideration, but on the whole, Australia is a place where you can anything you want to be, shouldn't that be encouraged and a positive spinoff from that would be more funds for the needy..

Dear StG,

Your suggestions are great.

However,I would also like to link the dole, especially
for young people, by encouraging them to learn some sort of a
trade. Thereby increasing their chances of finding a job.
I'm not sure what sort of programs currently exist - but
it wouldn't hurt to ensure that young dole applicants understood
that eligibility for the dole entailed learning a skill while
they were getting Government support.

Anyway, just a thought.

StG I think this meat is a little under done. A lot more thought is needed especial the intention is a debate or a rave.
e.g. As it stands now you would need to explain why as it could be argued that the sole purpose of “dole’” is for those in need.

Your comment seems to imply that all on the dole are bludgers (people not seeking work) which I would dismiss as being ill-informed and nonsense.

FACT the biggest call on our social security $ are the aging and retirees. Who until relatively recently were raised and worked in an environment where Super was for bosses and the pension was for when you retired. Jobs were for life and if you had more than 3 jobs you were considered unstable. Likewise in the 60/70 a person could leave one job today and get three offers by tomorrow.

There are many reasons why a person may not be able to find work. Age, skills, location, intellect, physical, psychological…..etc.

Children are most often reflections of their environment/parentage. The days of copious unskilled factory jobs are long gone. But there are still areas whole estates or suburbs where the parents’ educational standard is low end high school. This is often followed by children who fail to complete high school who expect executive jobs.
To deny them sustenance would only create the climate for illegality experienced in ex iron curtain countries where there are no appropriate jobs and rampant crime. Please refine the topic.

Cut the dole anywhere in a society that has become dependent on the dole and the escalating crime rate will bring that society down.
Cops barely manage as it is.
State governments are also notorious for not hirng new cops.
End of society!

"Currently the suicide rate in rural communities is getting out of hand as is the quality of life for elderly".
"How about we cut the dole from 'unlimited".
"1 year of lifetime eligibility"

StG
Do you think is right to take the money from people in disparate need and give them to other people who probably are in better conditions than unemployment people?
Do you think is right to take the money from people in need instead to try to find any other solution?

"Australia is a place where you can anything you want to be"
It is seemed that I live in an other planet or you know little for the other Australia! It seemed you know little for sole parents problems, especially for sole mother's problems, for unemployment's problems, for migrant's problems, for Muslim's problems, for disable 's problems, FOR RURAL COMMUNITIES PROBLEMS, (as you wrote).
It is better to make the system fairer, increasing the taxes on big corporations and multinational companies, wasting less money for support to bushinesses, putting an order in the public sector, limiting the number and salaries of the top managers and their assists, etc.
THERE AREMANY WAYS TO SUPPORT THE RURAL COMMUNITIES WITHOUT TO INCREASE UNEMPLOYMENT PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS. ALREADY THEY HAVE HUGE PROBLEMS. PEOPLE IN DOLE NEED OUR SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING AND ENCOURAGE TO FIND THEIR WAY.

"1 year of lifetime eligibility"?
In our days, people lose their job often and change profession many time in their life ( of cause the new technologies, in Denmark change employer three times per year! )
Even the worst extremist of neo conservatives could not suggest eligibility for dole 1 year for lifetime.
NO! StG,
You are very hard with unemployments, VERY HARD!

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid

What's the point of taking the dole from the unemployed (after a total of 1 year of payments are made over any amount of time) and giving it to farmers? That's merely swapping the dole from one section of the community to another. A failing "farmer" is NO MORE DESERVING of handouts than the genuinely unemployed. Farming is a business, NOT a charity..........just like ALL businesses. Business people need to manage "RISK" if their business is to survive. One risk factor for farmers is drought. If a farmer can't effectively manage that risk, then the farmer should not be in business.

The same applies to the elderly. These days most elderly people are not products of the Great Depression.......most of them have lived through the boom economic periods of the post war good times. They've all had the chance to work towards a relatively comfortable retirement. They should have managed "their" risk, by planning for their retirement and adjusting their lifestyles towards the inevitable lower incomes they'll be receiving when they finally retire. If they have refused to manage their risk during their working lives, then they must expect to exist solely on the pension, with all the lower living standards that implies. It's "their" choice regarding "their" risk management. Giving old people handouts, taken from other peoples' dole payments, does nothing for the economy; it merely redistributes money and rewards pensioners for not planning effectively for retirement.

I have waited for a government to find an answer to the dole.
It must come one day but in my view it will not be a one year limit.
That is about the way it is in America, we look after our own far better.
Once ,maybe still some find work in local government, not all but many could not get a job anywhere else.
Such jobs could be found or even made, if a return on the costs came back to the community.
Let us not get the idea all on the dole are bludgers, but some are.
We owe them nothing unless they actually contribute in return, not the current work for the dole.
In country villages that have twice the average unemployment rates you struggle to find some one to work for half an hour earning $50 to mow a lawn.
Yes some but not all are work shy.

We’ve got massive wealth flowing into this country from coal, iron ore and a host of other primary produce. There should be well and truly enough money to take care of all our social security, basic services and quality of life issues.

If we could just implement the necessary redistribution of wealth, we’d be right! But of course that would be totally politically untenable, as it would mean implementing tax regimes that offend practically all the rich and powerful people in the country…and outside the country in a host of multinational companies.

Despite our enormous national income, we are reduced to tinkering around the edges of social policy….compared to what could be achieved if power remained in the hands of our government.

Such is the criminalistic behaviour of successive governments, that have sold our national soul to powerful vested interests and then pandered to them just about every inch of the way, instead of upholding their duty of care to the community.

We need a much more socialistically-oriented government. But the vested-interest big-business powerbase would make sure that we don’t get it….even if there was any inclination from Rudd. Gravely, the dole, the pension, the state our health system, education, rural support, environmental health, etc, are all just going to rapidly slide downhill from this point on.

I reckon 2012 will be the year that the whole show falls apart and Australia becomes one giant Mad Max movie set.

StG “How about we cut the dole from 'unlimited' too say, 1 year of lifetime eligibility and funnel those funds into helping out the farming community and the elderly. Currently the suicide rate in rural communities is getting out of hand as is the quality of life for elderly.”

That is just an exercise of shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Much better the government cut the dole but then taxed everyone less so farmers retained more of their farm profits and the approaching elderly could better finance their own old age.

Governments fix nothing.

Only individual people, acting with their own best interests at heart, do anything

"They've all had the chance to work towards a relatively comfortable retirement."

Superannuation was not made compulsory in this nation until the early nineties. There are many surviving elderly people who were lowly paid, but managed to successfully raise a family without any handouts.

They paid taxes all their lives but had little chance of saving much for their retirement. Of course some of the elderly were, no doubt, poor managers of finance but not more so than what we are witnessing in younger groups today where many appear to depend entirely on credit.

Hopefully they won't end their days in a government owned dog box.

I disagree that farmers need additional handouts. Suicide rates are not higher in that group. Farmers are generally a fortunate group in Australian society when it comes to grants here, relief there, tax breaks etc. The criteria for financial assistance is simpler for farmers than any other group and at least they can always get a feed.

And according to UNICEF, the youth suicide in Australia is the highest in the world.

According to one report, the highest at risk group for suicide are schizophrenics.

Most drug induced schizophrenics are heavily dependant on the dole.

I am acquainted with two decent families whose sons are schizophrenics - drug induced, off their heads and written off.

One, once a mining surveyor, the other, a builder who had attended the best private school in the state - wasted!

The drug culture in Australia requires further urgent attention. It's almost become acceptable!

Many of our youth have destroyed their livelihoods with this awful addiction. Many are alienated from their families. They are a huge drain on the public purse - a dole often supplemented by a life of crime.

Taxpayers are paying a heavy price in handouts for these young people.

There is an urgent need to get these addicts cleaned up and off the dole. What are the solutions? Bootcamps?

"New-start is a benefit for individuals who are able to be in the workforce but currently not working"

Sorry this is wrong, there are many casual workers on Newstart.

"New-start is a benefit for individuals who are able to be in the workforce but currently not working"

Sorry this is wrong, there are many casual workers on Newstart.

Posted by ruawake, Monday, 14 July 2008 4:48:55 PM

It's not wrong. Newstart IS a benefit for individuals who are able to be in the workforce but currently not working. There are also people on in who work casually. Your point?.

Why does anyone need to be on the dole for more than a year?. I never said everyone on the dole was bludging. Never said it, never implied it, you're just overly sensitive, examinator.

I also suggested more intensive help for people who are having trouble finding work. Whether that be psychological, or REAL job seeking assistance.

I've been on the dole, it has its place. There is no shame in needing assistance and people who cares for others, single parents, the disabled etc etc should be able to get into the workforce part time but still receive benefits. No issue with that, at all.

Why not limit lifetime entitlements to 1, 2, or 3 years when other who have LONG TERM financial issues struggle. There is no reason many on the dole can't work. Instead of getting all sensitive over it why not consider others instead of yourself?.

What's the reasons people stay on Newstart long term?, excluding carers etc...

StG

If you are employed for 1 hr a week you are not unemployed, if you only get to work 1 hour a week you are eligable for Newstart.

Many people have seasonal work or would like to work more hours.

it is time to wake up from the delusional money changers idea of reality[is this polices state makling you feel safer
has MURDER by war served your life to be better?

who are you serving KEVIN
special colluding money changer controled BIG multinational BUISNESS intrests [dont PRETEND you are serving god [or GODS people

WHO IS NOT GIFTED LIFE from GOD?
that ye do [allow to be doine to the least you did to GOD!]
stop serving the beast
WAKE UP KEVIN

FREE enegy is here
WHY YOU IN-STALLING a NEW tax?
its an 83 trillion dollar LIE BRO

try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykGZ2tRY4kY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-ulOvJl46U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqBWk9YRu7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czZ9kn70Y7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu8LaVH-pn0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6YYUOx6fBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxZR4C9gqOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgrDdJotz0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU8PId_6xec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8stApCmxYEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHh5AqQ4_xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Lnhs7caCo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-O7WNvKSvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrMcBHGMZzc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCjM-ZOqQF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTr3ZgKwsiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXv6sO52xFY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAiTv0IpHWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0FhADUZjx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLev-ijMLME

as to how try this as to why they are being kept from our kids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21D3ATgMHuE
http://www.youtube.com/watchv=zp_XHfylwPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4RZqQujqDQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YnnTzyidNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGhPgEDcKXI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v76amxA9x1cA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6uTy9Uq0K0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSBxEZoNfQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq_APNsERXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLqw59XfG04
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLR7-jdF3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14yDP0GKrUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muQRIUVd6Aw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kp24ZeHtv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_MHVw1Zz-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLzUNDaF00U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9MQ88NEO7Q

well
we could nationalise 'big oil [and big pharma
to free up our childrens minds
[then join the suppressed research to gether [AND HEAL THE WORLD}

but we wont [cause we cant]
because we arnt allowed to see the big picture
[because of privatised proffit's]

we are spending billions subsidising these multinationals with our taxes [every week ]

billions spent pills and potions that dont cure us
clearly big BUISNESS lobby is paid to stay on top of this info
to ridicule it where they can
or suppress it where they cant

but for the alternative of [free] energy
that is based on science

that your regular scientists are forbidden to explore
that of which you speak is thus unspeakable
so

[why are they controlled and owned by the same cartel's"]

[and are making us sicker ,by treating the symptom
[BUT NEVER actually even allowed to cure THE DISEASE]
why
because they have an active lobby
they have bought out govt
they have BOUGHT your soul bro
repent kevin
god loves a repentant sinner!
go and fix it NOW my gentile brother

Oh wow, you're a fruitloop.

StG!

"cut the dole from 'unlimited' too say, 1 year of lifetime eligibility"
For labors, the dole is their red line, their last defend line, their last hope.
Without it they will die from hungry, on the streets.
Older labors, after their 55 years, have huge problems to find work, for most of them it is impossible to find work.
What will happen to them if the dole is only for limited time? What will be their options? suicide or thief?
Even Howard's government did not touch the dole and you suggest limited time for it?
We, (labor-Union movement and Australian progressive people)will "crunch" the hands which would try to eliminate the dole.

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Social Benefits Reprioritizing
Dickie “Superannuation was not made compulsory in this nation until the early nineties.”

Correct, but I set my superfund up in 1986 and it was and is tax deductible.

Because governments make something compulsory, did not prevent people acting in their own best interests, previously.

“Most drug induced schizophrenics are heavily dependant on the dole.”

Not sure of the accuracy of that statement but agree with the sentiment.
More likely most schizophrenics (whether drug or otherwise induced) are incapable of retaining gainful employment and so end up as dole addicts by default.

You will get no argument from me dickie, on the dangers of a drug culture. Execute second offence dealers as a start, although some people think I am being “irrational” and “spleen venting” for daring to suggest such a thing or that the skank, Schapelle Corby should be left to rot where she is.

“There is an urgent need to get these addicts cleaned up and off the dole. What are the solutions? Bootcamps?”

Sounds the best suggestion I have heard so far, better than pandering to their exaggerated sense of entitlement.

One under god “we could nationalise 'big oil [and big pharma”

Take one monopoly and institutionalise it as a government monopoly.
Garbage

I would like to see oil and pharmaceutical company cartels / monopolies broken down and made to compete with one another. That is how you will get better balance between supplier and consumer.

The US FTC and UK Competition Commission and the ACCC all do a good job but not enough of a good job.

Although we do seem to end up with a lot of pointless regulation… maybe government should “Reprioritise” its resources into anti competitive activity instead of trying to “nanny state” us all

As for “One Term KEV”, don’t put your faith in him.
He is one “White Man” who speak only with forked tongue.

"Older labors, after their 55 years, have huge problems to find work, for most of them it is impossible to find work.
What will happen to them if the dole is only for limited time? What will be their options? suicide or thief?"

Fair point, Antonios. How about 3 years maximum for under 50's to age of senior pension?.

I appreciate there will be something wrong with EVERY idea thrown around, but I hear nothing but negatives about finding solutions for those who are in need. Like the elderly. I'm not convinced that a large proportion of unemployment beneficiaries are not in need of anything other than a kick up the bum. I know some, I'm many who read this do. Everything given is taken for granted. People who REALLY take can't take care of themselves sufficiently should take priority over people who make a choice of being in poverty.

Dear StG
"finding solutions for those who are in need." This is an other story!

WE KEEP THE DOLE AS IS AND WE TRY TO FIND WAYS TO MINIMIZE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DEPEND ON IT.
If you agree about it I am ready for some suggestions which could be helpful to minimize the problem.
Of cause it is impossible to zero the unemployment or to convince all people 100% to become employee, for various reasons.

REGARDS
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

I don't fully agree with ya Antonios, but, where would you makes cuts to helps the elderly?.

Col and other ancient Greek (human hating) styled lesser gods.
So speaks the voices of selfish ignorance? Fear? Party political Dogma? How we all wish the world was as monochromic as you suggest. (Black or white)

Boot camp! Works for some with attitude problems and is dependant on the circumstances the participants find when they come back. I’ve helped run these camps and also involved with follow ups. As a solution it is over hyped.
As are options like “scared straight” and many more ideas of their ilk.

“Execute second time drug dealers?” You would have been a hit in the C18/19.

Facts. Deterrents don’t work they are like locks they keep honest people honest.
There are no such things as a magic bullet.

To err is human including in legal judgements. Remember Mrs Chamberlain? What do you do when you’ve publicly vilified and destroyed a person’s life in error? Some how “Oops… er… sorry” is inadequate as is”have pot of money”
Trust me this doesn’t help.
The courts, law enforcement and lotto freaks would love your Crystal ball(s)! The one that gives you 100% infallible insight.

Corby (skank?) You have inside info perhaps do tell. You can’t be basing it on appearances, the media sensationalizing and the kangaroo Courts of Indonesia surely?

Is she where she belongs (guilty)? I don’t know.

She doesn’t appear to be the sharpest knife in the block but she knew or should have known the risks … when you visit (ancient) Rome as a Christian you’d better know how lion whisper.When you travel you should be prepared to accept local laws if not …don’t go.

Is she being hardly treated or a public warning/deterrent? If she was it was a raging failure.

People are more than one facit of their lives. Sure some behaviour is unacceptable in our community what we need is a way to change that behaviour.

I suggest you read John Donne’s ‘for whom the bell tolls” each individual matters after all it could be YOU next

StG
"where would you makes cuts to helps the elderly?"

Ludwig gave to you,partly the answer.
"We’ve got massive wealth flowing into this country from coal, iron ore and a host of other primary produce. There should be well and truly enough money to take care of all our social security, basic services and quality of life issues"

Australia is a whole continent and very rich in minerals, etc. We do not have to cut from unemployment people to support elderly people.
We give to multinational companies plenty from our national wealth and we take from them very little.

I do not understand why taxpayers have to pay for private schools. Are they private business?
If yes why we have to pay them?
If you check where are going our taxes you will find from where to cut the money.
If you check who pays the taxes and compare their income with the income of multinational companies and big corporations you will find from where to take the money.
Of cause we must encourage unemployed people to go work, not simple for the money we pay to them,( as we pay some others much more for no reason ) BUT FOR THEIR OWN BENEFITS! Because if they work they will fill and be much better. Working, with better income, they could improve their conditions, they could be happier.
I WANT PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLE IN NEED, THE PEOPLE WITH BAD EXPERIENCES TO HAVE THE CHANCE, TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME HAPPY, TO BECOME SUCCESSFUL.

The question is WHY PEOPLE DO NOT GO WORK? WHAT WAS THEIR EXPERIENCES FROM THE WORK OR THEIR ENVIRONMENT AND THEY PREFER THE BAD CONDITIONS THAN TO GO WORK?
Bulling? humiliation? discrimination? rejection? isolation? drugs? family history? What? Why?

There are one million reasons for the people to avoid the work.
ONLY IF WE SEARCH, STUDY AND CLASSIFY OUR UNEMPLOYMENT PEOPLE, ONLY THEN WE CAN USE THE RIGHT WAY FOR EACH CATEGORY AND SUB-CATEGORY OF THEM, ONLY THEN WE CAN EXPECT GOOD RESULTS.

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid

Examinator “Facts. Deterrents don’t work they are like locks they keep honest people honest.
There are no such things as a magic bullet.”

And

“I suggest you read John Donne’s ‘for whom the bell tolls” each individual matters after all it could be YOU next”

I suggest you read ‘A Clockwork Orange’ – Anthony Burgess

It answered any doubt I had about how far a community should go in " what we need is a way to change that behaviour.”

Behaviour is simply a consequence of the real problem, ‘attitude’

“How we all wish the world was as monochromic as you suggest. (Black or white)”

It is black or white.

However, the line which divides those two states is not straight but full of curls, swirls and loops, so finely contoured that it produces the muddy grey which is what most folk, lacking analytical rigor, content themselves with.

“People are more than one facit of their lives.”

Of course and Maslow goes some way to explaining it.

Beyond that, 90% of the influences in our lives are invisible to others and exist only in the organ between our ears.

But ultimately we are all put here with the opportunity to choose to be black or to be white.

And Corby decided to follow the path of her ‘black’ father

ASymeonakis “ONLY IF WE SEARCH, STUDY AND CLASSIFY OUR UNEMPLOYMENT PEOPLE, ONLY THEN WE CAN USE THE RIGHT WAY FOR EACH CATEGORY AND SUB-CATEGORY OF THEM, ONLY THEN WE CAN EXPECT GOOD RESULTS.”

Several million variables and only one law / set of rules to deal with them. No wonder government stuffs it up, because the variability of individuals can never be addressed by a system designed to deliver “equality”.

That is a good reason to keep government small and away from the important stuff which affects peoples lives.