I used to support the Salvos, purely for their work in assisting the disadvantaged. I didn't get involved on a regular basis and kept well clear of the religion bit, but I did collect for their Red Shield appeal for many years.

Until I saw their leadership standing hand in hand with John Howard one too many times, and becoming far too keen on supporting his draconian and punitive approach to social policy for my liking. I have nothing to do with them any more and now donate my used stuff to Lifeline instead.

Mum's a very active Salvo but that's her thing; I leave her to it. As Foxy pointed out, there are still lots of good people in the organization. On balance, the Salvos do still stand out in my book as one of the more useful and less hypocritical of the churches.

It is always interesting to read the stories from different people about the same organization. A bit like those legendary eyewitnesses who saw the same hit-and-run, but reported the car in many different makes, models and colours. All convinced of course, that their version is "true" and the others' false.

My experience is that of all the organizations who profess to care for the disadvantaged, the Salvos come closest to practising true compassion and caring.

Apart from their attitude, which I personally have found to be unfailingly modest, thoughtful and self-deprecatory, they don't raise money simply in order to keep their chief executive in clover...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2002/sep/25/8

...nor do they spend like drunken sailors on head-office staff

http://phoenix.jobing.com/job_details2.asp?JobID=1509096&utm_source=simplyhired&utm_medium=link&utr

Seeing them feeding soup to the homeless under railway arches at 1 a.m. is a humbling experience. Not once did I hear them preach at an unfortunate drunk or druggie, instead they simply gave them what sustenance and hope they were able, expecting nothing in return.

If others have had different experiences, that saddens me. But I have myself seen enough goodness and selflessness to make the Salvos my only "must-give" charity.

I guess I openned a door to some interesting feelings towards the Salvos.
Actually I wasnt trying to so much bag the Army for anything in the physical it had or hadnt done... as I was lamenting the loss of their spiritual fire.
I used to live in country Queensland and when I became a born again Christian I was attending the Salvation Army and for several years after I got saved, I went to their local Corps. Much the Salvo talk was about the "old days" of William and Catherine Booth and what fire the early Salvos had for the lost... but like many churches they seemed to have lost the go to "Go into all of the world and preach to every living creature" (Mark 16:15).
As I watched our little Army group, over a period of time, Captains coming and going as they did, bit by bit the preaching and witnessing events fell away and mostly they went cold to the lost.
My hope is that one day the Salvo Army will truly come alive again and be seen again out in our streets preaching Jesus with trumpets uplifted.
The dark years ahead may just provide that opportunity.
With petrol and food going to get so expensive there will eventually be a huge wave of poor, all around the world, begging for help from whomsoever will listen.
Then Im sure the fire for Jesus will be back.
In hardtimes, and war, men and women always turn to The Lord.

Pericles

Your experience of the Salvation Army (SA) is valid. You saw them as compassionate and down-to-earth.

Please don't insult the many children who were put in the care of SA officers in institutions by your analogy to the divergent accounts of hit-and-run accidents. I'm talking about people whose whole childhoods were ruined by the SA. No hit-and-run. These kids couldn't run because the Salvos would have the Police fetch them back.

If you're serious about the truth look at the Senate Report, "Forgotten Australians".

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/clac_ctte/completed_inquiries/2004-07/inst_care/report/

Even the SA acknowledge that in their institutions "...sadly there have been some instances where unsafe, improper or unlawful care or treatment has occurred." (Submission 46) And that's as much of a concession of responsibility the SA would make.

Compare the victims' detailed submissions under oath about

- Sexual and physical abuse, alcoholic staff and violence (submission 75)

- Violence (submission 90)

- Humiliation of bed wetters (submission 184)

- Physical abuse, humiliation (submission 286)

- Mental abuse - scrubbing toilets with a toothbrush (submission 326)

- Being flogged for crying because you were missing your mother (submission 335).

These examples come from as far apart as Queensland, NSW and WA. Victoria's hell-hole at Bayswater could match these shocking stories. Not much Christian charity there, Pericles. Maybe the children would have ben better off had they slept under railway arches, eh?

The SA has created many damaged adults. Maybe some sleep under railway arches.

You confirm that the SA does it on the cheap. No heavy overheads. That may be why the former residents of their children's institutions called them the Starvation Army.

Thanks for the references Spikey.

The hit-and-run analogy was clumsy, and not intended to suggest that my view was "true" and all others false. More that my view might be equally personalized by my own experiences, and therefore just one opinion among many.

>>These examples come from as far apart as Queensland, NSW and WA. Victoria's hell-hole at Bayswater could match these shocking stories. Not much Christian charity there, Pericles. Maybe the children would have ben better off had they slept under railway arches, eh?<<

This is "generalizing from the particular", upon which you quite rightly took me to task.

I have to agree that in the cases cited there was "not much Christian charity" on display.

But at the same time you must also accept that I have seen acts that demonstrate "a great deal of Christian charity".

Pericles,

Yes I accept your point about examples of Christian charity - that's why my father was such a supporter of the Salvos.

However, in their children's homes and the defensive response of the top brass of the Salvation Army to complaints of child abuse - not unlike the Catholics - Christian principles such as compassion for the meek, contrition for your sins and Christian charity simply went missing.