I got ill this morning.

I clicked on the Sydney Daily Telegraph and here is a story, that if printed up correctly, suggests the sellout of Australia, in time of conflict, to Red China.

The story on the Sydney Daily Telegraph website reads, under the heading of...

Australia may have to choose: China or US (click on it).

"Australias close military ties to the US could comprimise our security unless we also embrace a rapidly growing China.
An independent study yesterday said that, if tensions between the global superpower, the US, and the pretender to that crown, China, boiled over, Australia could be drawn into a conflict for all the wrong reasons.

..."The latest strategic insight from the Australian Stategic Policy Institute (ASPI) painted a disturbing picture of a regional arms build-up led by China and its neighbour India.
Were great powers relations in the Asia pacific to deteriorate, there would be the potential for our allaince with the US to embroil us in periods of tension or even conflict"...

WHAT IS THIS?

It comes across to me as a sellout of our big, wide and wonderful country, in time of war, from anglo-saxon Christian democracy over to Red Chinese communism, with all of its abuses of human rights, just to save Australia?

If this is so... it is a very cowardly and a traitorous attitude, one that would cause our diggers, all of the men and women who gave their lives to protect this nation from oppression, to roll over in their graves.

SELLOUT TO CHINA? FOR ANY REASON?

*Better to sell out to the USA today and become another State of their nation and invite them in to fortify the nation than allow a cowards sellout to China at anytime!

Invite US Defense to take over Australia...at least the Americans are three quarters civilised.

Someone tell me I got the story wrong.

Shut up Gibo. Your post is extremely stupid.

How dare you say that Australia should become a state of the USA... That is the very definition of what a traitor is.

“Shut up Gibo….”

I don’t endorse this sort of comment at all. Good on you Gibo for expressing your concerns.

“At least the Americans are three-quarters civilised”

And China isn’t civilised eh. MMMmmm, them’s inciteful words Gib!

If it ever comes to Australia having to choose between Chinkeeland or the Yankeeland, I’m sure our illustrious leaders will do it with the best interests of the country, economy and society in mind.

We have to be concerned about the growing strength of China and the build-up of its army. If it ever comes to major conflict between China and the US, it may well be better for li’’le ol’ Oz to suck up to China….and bid our long-time ally a fond and reluctant fair-well.

I think the European-cum-multinational occupation of the Great South Land is going to be a short phase in between two very long phases; the aboriginal occupation and the Asian (Chinese) one.

So what do we do? Hold out and be taken over in a hostile manner, or bow to a slow and steady rate of infiltration?

Are there any other options?

Not so stupid Steel.
If the Chinese ever get here you young folks will lose everything you ever had and dreamed of.
They will take the Australian women for themselves, thanks to a one child policy they established that killed their own girl children, and the great strong Aussie male will become a whimp working in a Chinese vegetable garden.
Satan owns China. This we see in the way the government treats its own people.
Guys like you Steel come across as cowardly. Too chicken hearted to go to war even for the country that suckled you.
Stand against China in your hearts each day and you have done the noble thing by Australia...and pray for your country. Only prayer in the end will save Australia from the great Chinese expansion.

Good to hear from you Ludwig.
Youre up the Far North arent you?
Ever thought of joining a gun club?
Ive got a mate up in Cairns.
He's in a gun club and I encouraged him.
The state of the nations defences is so 3rd world what could I do?

There are a number of ways we can stop China from taking our precious land (they already refer to us as NEW SOUTH CHINA and NEW CHINA, so travellers who have visited Chinese classrooms in the 1980's tell us. They have maps showing us re-named as such).
First we tackle Steels objection to the USA and invite the Americans in.
We help them build more bases and we allocate them land for their housing developments.
We encourage them to build towns; and even if it comes to a USA take-over of much of Australia, we support it.
Better an American ownership than a Chinese.
We establish a citizens home guard defence force and see that its equiped and not centred in major cities.
Make it "far-scattered" so it cant be targeted.
Encourage a return to log cabin living/self-sufficiency farming in support of "citizens home guard".
Give land to willing couples who want to return to the bush.
Help them with self-sufficiency. Train them for a citizens defence force.
Allow the yanks to store their nukes here.
Establish a capability to take nukes to mainland China.
Put a bit of fear into them.
1,000 Chinese spies already on Australian soil suggest they already feel they own Australia.
Be alert to the seditious attempts of some, from within the nation, to encouarge a closeness to Red China. Communism isnt dead here in this Great South Land of The Holy Spirit.
It mutated after the Berlin Wall went down... and took on new suits. I believe it.
Pray for Australia. Dont give in to China.
Its too gross for me to contemplate.
They murder born again christians on their own soil...they will do it to christians here.

The need for climate change is more important to Australia than the destruction of its economy.Nothing is made in Australia anymore, everything we see around us is 'made in china', so what economy does Australia have if nothing is made here anymore?

Anyway, I thought I'll post an interesting read on climate change, with an alternative criticism of current policy.A very interesting read, recommended, see below

http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:PT5Ne23HQrgJ:www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/articles/EvansQuadrantMarch2008.pdf+fraud+Garnaut&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=21&gl=au

Cheers

Gibo is insane. Honestly he is discussing the destruction of Australia as a nation and country, by giving it away to the USA as a State.........because China *might* 'invade one day'................ is this random insanity or is this view widespread?

I really have to wonder why the Australian Strategic Policy Institute presents this False Dichotomy.

“Better an American ownership than a Chinese.”

Yeah? I wonder about that Gibo.

You’ve got an interesting defence plan there. But if it means massive development of towns and bases in northern Australia, with a huge boost in population, being largely American, then I’d say forget it. Would it be any better than a huge boost in Chinese numbers?

Anyway, even if we doubled our population and increased our defence capabilities ten times, or perhaps a hundred times with the help of the US, we still wouldn’t be able to resist a determined Chinese takeover….would we?

China is just so huge in population, resources and soon-to-be-if-not-already military capability.

This stuff is enormously scary. I think that in a decade’s time, when we’ve (very optimistically speaking) resolved our concerns with climate change, peak oil and sustainability issues, the major issue will become national security with respect to China.

Perhaps the best strategy is to accept a large quota of Chinese within our immigration program, so that the population steadily become Chinified. If that happens, there should be much less chance of a hostile takeover that would probably result in very poor treatment of the non-Chinese.

Maybe we just need to accept that the power lies fairly and squarely with China, and that we need to be onside all way and make sure we don’t end up in the poo with Mr Hu.

Well Steel my boy, what do you think the Australian Strategic Policy Institute was doing when they stuck out the idea of submission to either China or the US for the sake of a future national existance?

Do you reckon someone has fed them a concept to feed to the public?

Maybe they thought it for themselves and maybe they just want feedback on the subject?

The truth is they want something. Maybe they want to tell the public something.

The ASPI knows what I know...do you know it?

War is coming.

I know more than they do because I collect visions and prophecies from the Christian churches that speak about an invader to Australia.

Does anyone have an answer to the problem of the growing threat to the region by China that doesnt involve either submission to either China or the USA?

Come on guys...it HAS to be the USA coming to Australia and protecting us by incorporating Australia into their own immediate realm of control.

For decades we let Defence slip away into a 3rd world mode...now we have to pay for it.

Bring on America...at least they wont force us to work as coolies in some giant coast to coast vegetable garden.

Its a slow thread this one. I guess people dont like to talk about war, even when they can see the rise of conflicts.

Its coming though...and we should all be writing and e-mailing the PM and Defence about doing a proper job....for once.

1. You cant take all of the semi-automatics rifles off the gun clubbers and the farmers and not put the same, or a greater number of firearms, back in Defence arsenals.
Its a backward move to loose gun numbers in a nation... whilst surrounding nations build and build and build for possible war.

2. Another thing for Defence to consider is that we already know, thanks to Gods Word, where China is going to go.

*At the end of the Bibles endtimes she will move out from within her borders and outwards across Asia, crossing the Euphrates River, and on to Israel and to Armageddon to Israels north (the plain of Megiddo). Revelation 9:16 and 16:12.

So we are not so poorly done by after all.

All we have to do is to be ready and for any southern movement on into South East Asia and Australia.

It would be an intelligent move to also consider a decentralisation of city populations...send the young couples back to log cabin living/self sufficiency farming as a prep for citizens home guard...and to have equipment dumps scatterd across the country.

Whats Written in the Holy Bible is the way its going to happen...we just have to adapt to what The Bible says.

PS: some Divine revelations to the christians of Australia say a enemy will one day move down the coast as far south as Byron Bay, NSW.

in order to sell oz, you have to own it.

this discussion among the sheep about which buyer will get them is mis-directed. you live here, but you don't own oz, any more than sheep own 'their' paddock.

your owners will make the decision, in their interests not yours. sheep don't have much say in these matters. as joh b-p used to say: "don't worry (your wooly head) about that!"

Yes it is a slow thread Gibo. Interesting isn’t it. The whole scenario of national defence, war, Chinese or Indonesian invasion or infiltration seems to be too ugly for most people to even want to think about for one moment, let alone debate. Even the debate-addicted people of OLO avoid it like the plague.

I’ve made some pretty strong comments about China overwhelming Australia previously on this forum. I expected a lot of response, but there was stuff-all.

Our society has for decades had this enormous blind spot with population growth and human expansion. But there are plenty of people on OLO who recognise it and are willing to debate it. That blind spot seems to finally be breaking down.

But the blind spot, or psychological block that most of us seem to erect in our brains when we hear about Chinese economic strength and military build-up, is very much in place. It doesn’t auger well at all for our future.

Yes DEMOS the takeover of Australia is well underway, with a great deal of foreign ownership and our government beholden to multinationals. And of course there is our trade in coal, iron ore, etc, which props up our economy and society, at a precarious point time when rising oil prices threaten to bring it undone. So we are highly beholden to our big trading partners as well…not least to China.

Well Im still for a US take-over even if its unofficial.
Chinas military is now so big (and growing) if it wasnt for the US nuclear arsenal the Chinese would be here.
Some would welcome that too because of their indoctrinations towards the old Red flame.
We simply never put enough money into Defence for Australia to survive without a benevolent big brother.

Tell me...when have the Chinese invaded in their thousands years of history? They do not care to. It really is asinine to pretend that they will. And the USA will not either. To pretend that they will is madness.

No one said Steel that the US was going to invade.
It might be appropriate though in the light of Chinas vast military expansion that we invite the US into Australia in a greater sense...sort of like asking a big brother to come and sleep over...for a few decades.
If the Bible says China will move out Steel...they will and thats that.
Do you know the <kings of the east>?
All of the christians do.
We all know about the worlds last great army.

Yes it is a slow thread,maybe we do not want to think about what the future may bring.
But America? Gibo I would rather be dead.
Not that I would be Chinese either.
If you represent Christianity I did well to leave that movement too.
May I ask why you talk of those who oppose your views as young?
Can you see a persons age from the printed word?
The fact is China may well be a threat so too America but we can do very little about it.

Well said Belly:
I can scent a whiff of political hysteria in this thread!

The world is a rapidly changing place and likewise world politics.

I think we are seeing a similar hysteria to the one that has been "talking up" the price of fuel!

People should be keeping their mouths closed on the issue of taking sides.....Australia is fast losing it`s image of being a relatively neutral player in our part of the globe and we do not need any frenzied sabre-rattling to further exacerbate this image!

There are those out there who are only too eager to beat the drum, not having enough brains to realise that nobody wins in times of war (except the arms manufacturers of course!)

I think the terminology should apply here: "Make sure the brain is engaged before putting the mouth into gear!"

Its China thats doing the sabre rattling Cuphandle...building a vast military when there is no need for one and telling no one why they are doing it.
Im just creating a stir on the lack of national defence for the huge endtimes army known as the kings of the east.
Over many years I got tired of looking at Australias 3rd world defences whilst all the power boys and old hands up high in the military buy "big stuff" that wont change the outcome of invasion to come.
Every single vision or prophecy that I collected on the invader in 15-17years, that was Given by The Lord, showed that the invader got here...and all of the roads south back into southern states were clogged with refugees seeking help because preparations were virtually non-existant.
Its going to happen.
The Lord Has sent the warnings which primarily are a warning about the sins of the Australian people....and what HE's going to Allow if Christian revival doesnt break out.
Having hitch-hiked some of the long, dry, barren road down from Cairns one year, many years ago, I would just like to see the impact of the "long walk" lessened for those refugees... with a better established preparation.
One very wise decision, in view of the vastness of the asian confederacy army-to-come, is to invite the USA to Australia.
Let the USA share ownership of Australia and build their bases and their communities.
Its far better than Communist Red China coming here and getting established in the northern half of the nation.

Let it go Belly. Youre not going to change me. Im a one-off in Christianity so dont blame Christianity for the occasional outspoken servant.
Im from an age where the catch cry was "tell it like it is!"
I tell it like it is, as I believe it to be.
America is not so bad.
They have lots of moral issues... but basically they were founded on the Holy Bible and good government and they have taken the Word of God to all of the corners of the world.
That counts with God for something.

You are mistaken Gibo, at least on the founders of the USA. America has been overrun by the Catholics and other major cults of Christianity.

"May it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government." - Thomas Jefferson

"The words "under God" were added to the Pledge on 14 June 1954"

Also, China is not a monarchy, so your "prophecy" is misaligned as far as you're concerned. I think your fears about China are seeded in the post-war racist period that was strongly anti-Asian. China have no interest in Australia, except as a trading partner.

I dont remember saying China was a monarchy Steel.

If what you are talking about is the term <kings of the east> its a name, a description of a collective of nations, from The Book of Revelation, that goes back to a time some 2,000 years (approx 96ad on the island of Patmos) ago when all countries had kings (or in Romes case, a Caesar...also a king).
How was John the Apostle supposed to describe what he saw as the Angel revealed the vision to him?
Was he supposed to have described the kings as communist governments with politburo type leadership or in North Koreas case... communist dictatorship?
No he described those nations as kings.
The USA is still God/Holy Bible established. A good solid Bible based nation with many missionaries to needy countries. America like Australia was founded in prayer... with Bible in hand.
A move towards the USA is far wiser than any move towards China.
Those prophecies are real Steel.
You will live to fight for your country.

Gibo>"Was he supposed to have described the kings as communist governments with politburo type leadership or in North Koreas case... communist dictatorship?"

How do you know he meant Chinese and North Koreans, but not South Koreans, Japanese and Tibetans? Did he name or describe them? I think this reveals your own past and political prejudices than anything else. According to your views, Australia is also a "king of the east", as is India and New Zealand.

-=-=

"according to the historian, Robert T. Handy, "No more than 10 percent-- probably less-- of Americans in 1800 were members of congregations."

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

"One of the most common statements from the "Religious Right" is that they want this country to "return to the Christian principles on which it was founded". However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. "

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
-=-=-=-

But don't let me stop you for calling for the destruction of the Australia as an independent, sovereign nation and for 'Australia' to cease to exist and become a state of the USA... do you know how absolutely insane that is? Based on speculation about a book written approximately 2000 years ago..how many of your kind in Australia want to give our sovereignty over to the USA?