Hi RObert
Sorry for the delay in responding. I did not find any of the Henson debate painful - no worries there I was just aware of not getting into the actual debate side of things rather than stick with Ginx's original message.

I think it is pretty clear there are some strong views on both sides and in the end, like most things, usually we can just agree to disagree.

Otherwise I will just get myself into deep water again discussing inkblots and how this relates to Henson...or not. :)

Dear Ginx (hope you catch up with this one in due course)

That was a most positive post, though I have to exercise a bit of 'will power' on the 'bozo' tag :)

You have (pleasantly) surprised me with 2 things.

1/ Staunch defense of free speech (Of Hanson and Henson) and hopefully me also.

2/ The observations you made about this, and how you demonstrated the selective nature of those attacking Hanson but not Henson

SOCIALISM.. a brief aside. I am in fact a 'socialist' in the Biblical sense. But I'm also a realist. The primary difference between us it seems is that you want to change the political 'structure' and I want to change the people in it. I don't believe that any structure or system will work unless it has people who are sympathetic to its objectives.
If you take the trouble to compare to chunks of scripture, you will see how this is illustrated.
Acts 2:42-47 "PURE socialism"
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=2&version=31
Acts 6:1 "Socialism falling apart"
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=6&version=31

When you see the reasons it started show cracks, (ethnic/multicultural) you will also know why I'm ultra cynical about the questionable benefits of EMphasizing difference rather than letting people merge and blend naturally.

FREE SPEECH and PERSECUTION OF RELIGION.
While separation of Church and State is probably a good thing, one wonders how far it should be 'forced' in the face of a small community's wishes.
When long standing important existing traditions are in place, it seems to me that 'wiping them out' in the name of separation is equivalent to trampling on land rights for people who have not lost their connection with the land.

ACLU vs KEYSTONE SCHOOL BOARD.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44481
The actual complaint.
http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/aclu%20pa%20tro-pi%20motion-final.pdf

REASONABLENESS It also seems reasonable to me, that if a school board desires to open it's meeting with prayer for guidance, unless there is a serious objection, why should they be prevented?
Even if the ACLU succeeds in preventing them, they can meet OUTside of the official room (in a home) and PRAY to their hearts content.. so what is gained by such prohibitive directives?

BOAZ you may well ask those questions of the religious who are pressing (and often succeeding) for repressive laws on other people and of society in general, such as gay people getting married. Religious extremists must learn to mind their own business and defend themselves from the state, ......INSTEAD...... of forcing their views upon others through lawmaking. But as we can see with Islam, this is never the intention is it? Islam in Australia is in the business of protecting itself. Once it feels safe, it will join you in altering society to their (and perhaps your) benefit. The problem of course is those extremists have an awful lot of power don't they?

Hanson supporters should read "The Nazi Seizure of Power" by William Sheridan Allen, set mainly in 1932/3 period. It is a true account of how the National Socialist worked fear into regional towns, to build a base.

The NAZI M.O. was to create fear among the Middle Class rural communities. Persons with deposits in the Bank became convinced that the Jews and Communists would take away their money, and they would become poor like the itinerant workers, they looked down on.

Farmers and rural merchants were their propagander targets.

The similarities the last days of the regional Weimar Republic (1919–33), and, between Hanson and rural Australia are strong. Fortunately, in Oz, we didn't elect a second Hitler.

RObert

I would much prefer to leave the beginning of a thread in your capable hands! But as I said before I would certainly join in.

Ginx

Thanks for starting an interesting thread and for your careful reading and analysis of our responses.

"Well now:........lets get to the Freedom of Speech issue. I'm surprised that I did not see what was so obvious when I started this thread!
Bronwyn, Foxy:- the issue you took with Hanson is entirely consistent with the issue you took with Henson!"

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that both Hanson and Henson deserved condemnation in that they both abused the right to freedom of speech or expression. If this is what you’re saying, I totally agree. I’m not sure it is though, as it seems somewhat at odds with earlier statements you made about Hanson being vilified. Your position on Hanson wasn’t entirely clear to me. Anyway, I think you may have already gone so I won’t say any more, other than to complement you on an inspired little linkage here!

Enjoy the noo'!

BD

"Notice all the squalor and sadness :) and the dilapidated humpies...the starving neglected children. Yep.. 'transformation' through the Gospel of Christ is an awful thing...for sure.
Renewed people don't need handouts, or 'special' assistance.. all they need is space, love and respect."

You're right, BD. It really is so simple. Silly me! I'll ring Jenny Macklin and tell her to fly in a planeload of bibles. She'll wonder why they hadn't thought of it before. To think they've been wasting all this time and money on trying to improve education, housing and health!

Oliver,

>>” The similarities the last days of the regional Weimar Republic (1919–33), and, between Hanson and rural Australia are strong.”

That’s a VERY, VERY long bow to draw. Germany was suffering violent instability. There were the communists and anarchists launching armed coups to overthrow the Gov’t. There were organisations of ex-soldiers (Freikorps) bitterly opposed to communism who also had designs upon gov’t. Street fighting, coups and counter-coups between these groups occurred on a regular basis. Democracy was put on hold entirely.

Besides this bloody bickering over who would rule the country, Ordinary Germans were suffering from massive hyper-inflation. By the end, 1 trillion Papiermark was replaced by 1 Rentenmark. There were limited goods to buy even if you were lucky enough to have the money.

Much of this upheaval can be linked to the massive reparations requirements which the French insisted upon at Versaillles. This burden, without doubt, contributed to the rise of Nazism and hence the Second World War.

There were NO REAL similarities whatsoever. Not in scale, nor in style. Hanson was a babe in the woods voicing the frustrations of “the battlers”, or what Rudd now refers to as “working families” with a system that seemed to be set up for somebody else. Gov’t had moved too far away for ordinary peoples and towards the PC elites. There was an inevitable backlash. Political parties made a renewed effort to get in touch with the thoughts/feelings/aspirations of their support base.