Dear_Pericles,
regarding that encounter, please keep_in_mind, that while my explanation may have missed some of the_nuances, I went to considerable effort to extract truth rather than simply what I 'wanted' to hear. I didn't introduce myself as 'missionary' until after a fair bit of discussion, asking general questions.
As you can hopefully appreciate, the shallowness and triteness of simply engaging in such an experience just so I could then say "ner ner told ya told ya" here..is something I was accutely aware of.
No, believe it or not, in all sincerity, I was not looking for something like that.
The reason and timing of me sharing that I'm a missionary is important. The only reason I mentioned that was so that 'after' reading me the verse in question, and then confirming the 'Islamic position' with Surah 19:88 which is stronger still, was to communicate effectively that in Christ, we can, and do, love our 'enemies'.

With you being a secular/atheist person, I should not expect you to appreciate the inner feelings of one who lives in this realm, so your response is not unexpected, and I have no wish to feel harsh towards you for it.

Only a fellow believer could appreciate how one feels when grasping the hand of ones enemy, and expressing Gods love to them in mood and word.

Please keep in mind, these souls were from diverse backgrounds, but all were Arab and Afgan and speak Arabic as virtually their native tongue.

The issue of female children being sexually consumnated in marraige was also confirmed in this, but not by anything they said,-the Quran they gave me included a bracketed note "Because they are immature" after 'those who have not had their courses' but for whom the 3 month waiting period applied.(to see if they are pregnant)

But lets not get bogged down with that. There is no need to argue something further with you, which is confirmed from reliable sources.
When I mentioned 'Ibn Kathir' their faces glowed with respect and they knew and respected Maududi also.

Lets_move_on, much more at the MBS event.

Fractelle.. ur right, you only have my version, please refer to my last post to Pericles.

Lets not labor this, I don't see much to be gained with you or Pericles or CJ when the level of prejudice and/or cynicism is so high.. You could all do the same research I've done, and then go and ask people in the know, and cross check answers with other sources. I imagine though that the responses would be determined largely by how the questions were framed, and.. whether the person asked was knowledgable. Ok..nuff said.

MBS..continued.. this little discovery blew me away. But before I make this 'startling revelation' :) consider this...

DOGS.. are, pack animals and meat eaters. "Fact"

but on 'Supreme Masters' web site, there is this:

<<Upon learning of Mr. Mohamed Shahidullah’s noble work, (of caring for stray animals) our Association members in Hong Kong immediately sent him 100 bags of “Lively Doggie” vegetarian pet food so that he can feed his animal friends with a better and healthier kind of food>>
http://www.godsdirectcontact.org.tw/gv/

So.. apparently, God (who made dogs meat eaters) is now telling his 'direct contact' that they should all be "vegetarians" :)

Check this out!
http://veganpet.com.au/articles/?page_id=7

Seems to me that these people want to re-construct animal reality.
But why would they try to make meat eating animals into vegetarians?

Does this possibly show just how far Peta would eventually go?

Overall, I was stunned by the veritable plethora of 'alternative religion'...

But one other observation which touched me, -all people we spoke with, and who passed by, seemed to have a very friendly outlook. Disagreement was always gracious. But the very fact of the exhibition and the numbers attending, show a sense of searching and longing in many hearts for answers and something more.

Boaz, I hate to be picky (no, really), but you seem to be in one of your self-contradictory moods again.

>>while my explanation may have missed some of the_nuances, I went to considerable effort to extract truth rather than simply what I 'wanted' to hear.<<

But you then admit to the reality of what you are doing in the very next post...

>>I imagine though that the responses would be determined largely by how the questions were framed, and.. whether the person asked was knowledgable.<<

And please try to understand that statements like this one, where you admit to fudging the question, are calculated to raise the cynicism quotient more than just a tad:

>>The issue of female children being sexually consumnated in marraige was also confirmed in this, but not by anything they said -the Quran they gave me included a bracketed note...<<

How convenient, this annotation. Why did you not frame a question around it? Do you still have the Quran, by the way? What other bracketed notes are there to confirm your worst suspicions about Islam?

You might care also to expand on this a little.

>>Only a fellow believer could appreciate how one feels when grasping the hand of ones enemy<<

Was this feeling reserved only for the Muslim contingent, or do you consider all of the other booth operators to be your enemy? After all, as you pointed out...

>>I was stunned by the veritable plethora of 'alternative religion'<<

Here's a quick thought for you: what is it, do you think, that drives people to alternative religions, when there are already plenty of well-established ones to go around?

Might they not be somewhat put off, for example, by the precedent in front of them of two religions who consider each other "enemies"?

Interestingly, as an atheist I don't think of either Christianity or Islam - or any of the "plethora of alternative religions", for that matter - as my enemy.

Which makes me feel oddly virtuous.

Boaz

"You could all do the same research I've done, and then go and ask people in the know, and cross check answers with other sources."

Listen carefully, I have worked, fraternised and am friends with Muslim people. Until 5 years ago I lived in Brunswick - significant Muslim population - without encountering any problems with the Muslims I met every day. I would no more think of interrogating any of these people than I would Hindus, Buddhists or Flyingspaghettists. I am even reasonable to the regular intrusion of Christians to my front door (although my SOH does getter the better of me occasionally).

I believe people are entitled to be treated with respect - irrespective of race, creed or gender.

I know that the suggestion of "How would you feel if interrogated by fundys of another religion”, is entirely moot, as you do love to proselytise.

I treat others as I find them, Boaz, if I am treated with courtesy and respect, then whatever religion they belong to doesn't even enter into any significance for me. I would no more go on a crusade such as yours than I would attend a KKK meeting and announce, “I am a jewish black lezzo”.

You, noted yourself, "But one other observation which touched me, -all people we spoke with, and who passed by, seemed to have a very friendly outlook. Disagreement was always gracious."

Of course people were friendly - what did you expect, Uzis at 20 paces? You were at a festival where everyone had the goal of meeting and promoting the best their beliefs had to offer. See what happens when people of diverse backgrounds get together? They get along.

All your interminable fearmongering is for nothing. People are simply people and for most of the time we all get along very well indeed.

Dear David,

If you purposely go out looking for failings within any context, you will undoubtedly find them.
But to what end?

The Bible isn't perfect either - and can be misinterpreted, if taken
literally.

Hi Pericles.

the point about how to frame questions is important.

If one wishes to obtain a particular answer, one simply includes the answer in the question. -like leading the witness.

Even though there is a specific piece of information about which we want to know the feeling of the other person, we have to place questions such that they are not going to just tell us what we want to hear.

On the bracketed bits, and the Quran, I see there are a lot of them, usually provided to make the text more understandable in english.
Of course I still have it.

Something I find curious. You say you don't have any particular interest in either Islam or Christianity, and are an atheist.
Then, you don't actually dispute 'what' I say, but babble about 'solutions/problems' etc.

While you might not be concerned about other members of the community holding beliefs which ultimately place you at a very low place, even dangerous; other people who have been on the rough end of that religious stick 'do'..and it surprises me that you don't seem to tweak to this.

Perhaps you havn't been discriminated against because of your beliefs?
Have you ever faced the possibility that all of your years of superannuation could be 'vanished' simply because you chose to say.. become a Christian? From that kind of 'mild' expression of persecution, you might ask 'on what' is such an act based?

That's where knowing 'the faith', and how it's beliefs translate into public policy comes in handy.

So, that's where we are confronted with your 'inciting hatred' and my 'alerting, raising awareness'. We seem to always clash at that point.

Hopefully one day, you will take the time to study some of these things and not just use bluster and blabber to down those you disagree with.