Easy Times,

Your are correct that univserse is expanding at a speed faster than c. The value c., is associated with the speed of light "in a vacuum" for particles, is "inside" the universe the fabric of the expansion of space-time, is not so contained by the limit.

The speed of light is less for "some" particles with mass say passing through the earch. Still incredibly fast. Certain exotic particles -Mesons?- still travel @ c. through matter, because these particles have no mass.

Infinity is interesting. For example, think about it:

The infinity of irrational numbers is greater than the infinity of rational numbers. Strange but it is mathematically correct.

Today: Have a good one :-).

Hi Romany,

I think why it is hard for us to perceive boundaries to ths universe is that we are told that Universe expands. This begs the question: into what? As mammals interacting in our ecology, we see cause and effect and we move through 3-D space during time, so our mind-maps are not really built to "see" space-time expanding itself, into nothing, not even a vacuum. In a macro-sense, the Universe is finite but contains infinities. Hard for humans; okay for mathematics.

Where the infinites will occur is the domain of quantum mechanics: e.g., infinite indeterminancy.

O.

Easytimes, Oliver,

Yes! That's it exactly: if the Universe really keeps on expanding then what is it expanding INTO? I mean, there's no such thing as nothingness and the paradox there lies in the fact that if there were such a concept as nothing it wouldn't exist by very virtue of the fact that we had defined it.

Does mathematics help so very much, Oliver? I mean, I remember when first learning about a number recurring after a decimal point I asked my father to SHOW me...so he kept on writing the number after the decimal point...but eventually ran out of paper so, to me, the edge of the paper defined the point at which the number stopped having any reality for me. It became theoretical. There were always boundaries when I was trying to grasp these concepts first: the edge of the paper or the blackboard - or even being told that something could go on from the earth to the sun many times over: the sun and the earth then anchored it in my reality for me.

But there surely comes a point where, even in mathematics, our knowledge becomes theoretical- it simply can't be empirical with such vast numbers and computations. So surely one has to have faith in mathematics itself just as some people have faith in a deity?

Even if Phoenix detects life or its remanets it may not allow us to draw too many conclusions about life elsewhere in the universe. There are some thinkers (backed by recent experiments) that have proposed that meteorite impacts may have ejected Earth rock into space which eventually fell to ground on Mars , & visa versa .And such rocks falls could have seeded/transferred life from one to the other, more than once.

With regard to why ETs have not made contact. Pericles has already
highlighted the time & distance barrier - it's likely to be a major
factor.

Some of the approaches to this question sound a bit like experts
cocksure predictions re earlier conundrums :man would never fly,
automobiles would never replace the horse & buggy, Kevin Rudd & (new)labor were the champions & darlings of the Arts - just to mention a few!

Still, there's no harm in pondering such questions ...

I suspect there could be something in our mode of communication. When we Earthlings transmit radio communications we disperse them far & wide -imagine such offerings as "I Love Lucy" coming at you, night after night,year after year, decade after decade...

We're like the bikie gang who just rode into town and began all night party in the park. When faced with such - company- locals tend to draw blinds, bar their doors, and pretend there's no one home.

Though, I suspect a few of the braver ETs may tune into a few of our more sophisticated offerings . They are probably scanning OLO right now and saying - 'HMMM, that Horus character is pretty cluey, we'd better head hunt him for our galactic council - or (better still!) put him to work in our stud to enrich our gene pool".

Romany,

In another thread I looked at Faith. My research found that at the time Moses faith meant "steadfastness" [Catholic encyclopaedia], in the first century, "truth" and "obedience"; and from 1392 CE [OED - Unabridged], faith means "truth" and "obedience" WITH "conviction". Herein, lies I think the difference in Faith in Religion and Faith in Mathematics. The former is purer etymologically, undoubted Faith; Sciencists [mathematicians] have a tentative conviction. Both need to deal with abstracts.

Cheers,

O.

Hello Horus,

Paul Davies deals quite a bit with your posit and meteors have been found with oganic material denser closer to the centre than to extremities.

Pehaps, to test for/again cross-over, one would needs to look at primitive DNA in the subterranian biospheres of both planets?

Oliver is it also true that there are more odd numbers then even in infinity? I know I read about something like that or it may have been the thing you were talking about.

Romany its amazing how the universe revolves around mathematics. Its really shows itself in the fact that if the laws of gravity that are fine tuned too about 100 decimal places where changed by just 1 point at the hundredth decimal place the entire universe as we know it would not be able to exist due to the fact that the planets and stars would be unable to form due to the change in the value of gravity.

With regards to Aliens and intelligence it also must be considered that what is regard as intelligent? I am sure a chimp thinks its highly intelligent when comparing itself to a rat. And I am sure humans think they are very smart seeing that nothing else comes close to us that we know of. But it is quite possible we are the laughing stock of the galaxy and no other civilizations out there consider us remotely intelligent and thus don’t even give us a second look. Ignorance is bliss.

Hey Horus I have also heard about the meteorites spreading life from mars to earth or earth to mars. Its quite possible and seeing the age of the universe it could be quite possible that life from far away planets thousands or even millions of light year away could spread to earth. Every time a meteor enters the atmosphere it could be carrying life forms from far away who knows!