Rudd filled unions with joy but he was elected to lead in directions we unionists would not always like.
My view is we both unions and ALP are on new ground but both needed to find such ground.
Are many aware workchoices still lives?
So very many think it died on election night yet it will take years 2 at least before it is re crafted.
Laws still exist that will soon see union officials and delegates gaoled.
The crime? not answering questions from the ABBC!
People hand picked by Howard's team, who are on record for anti union feelings and actions work still for Julia Gillard.
So what future unions and ALP?
A national IR redraft is coming, public opinion will have more impact on it than unions this government is such.
Unions can not stand still, not wait for ALP scraps to hit the floor we face the challenges the party did 3 years ago.
Our case for better entry rights and much more is one we should win but we must confront change and hear the voices of our members and act.
Given recent happenings union members committed to change may well consider attending ALP party Branch's as active members.
It seems clear the party is inching away from us.
I look for no radical union actions the thugs and mugs have harmed us enough but two way talks in good faith are Unions best tool and a wary eye on the ALP.

Whats next? Whats next!
Write to K. Rudd and ask him to do something about our pathetic national defences!
As Indonesia and China build for the "southern-movements-on-to- Australia" they will one day make... the Defence gun cupboard is bare of guns for the citizens.
John Howard failed with a citizens home guard defence force. Perhaps the mighty, insightful Labor federal government wont.
Or does Labor feel warm with the thought of a Red chinese army on Australian soil.
Those old commo thoughts sure are hard to kick out...arent they?

In SA, the Labor Government and the unions are always at each others throats. The Union/ALP nexus seems to have gone for good. The Government knows it, but the unions still haven't noticed, it seems.

It is now reported that Labor's new industrial arrangements, after dumping the AWAs of the previous government, will see surging wage claims, higher inflation and more out of work.

I am retired, but I feel sorry for workers who put their faith in a Labor government at the last election.

Why does the union movement think that it runs the ALP Belly? Isn't it time to acknowledge that union membership is way down and that other things have taken the place of the old style union movement?
Unions had their place. They did a damn good job once and they were certainly necessary but they have not kept pace with change.
You worry about me mate but I think I worry more about you and the likes of Sharan Burrows et al.
Unions are about to be the cause of another wages blow-out that the country cannot afford.
It happens every time. The conservative mob get in and fix the economy (not that your lot would agree) and then the other mob get in and undo all the hard work because they let the unions call the shots.
You're in the minority these days Belly but you still wield power far in excess of your actual numbers. I'll be happier when 80% of the delegates at an ALP conference don't belong (and never have belonged) to a union.

It is never easy in this forum to debate politics truly get to the guts of issues.
We find Gibo talking of home guards? mate do you understand if every one of us took his gun and ran to our shores we could not defend the best pub in Bondi?
It is about the relation ship between the ALP and unions unions gave birth to the ALP.
The ALP clearly is wishing to distance itself from the union, 22% of unionists while not most Australians is no small number.
It is my view thugs and mugs tactics are dead forever.
But like over half the western world unions can reinvent themselves and just maybe Labors efforts invite us to do so.
Single parent family's are not the norm.
I had no wish to turn this into an industrial relations debate but I see no rush to ask for inflated wages, most of my industry's are locked into EBAs for at least 2 years.
Some victims of workchoices are 1 or 2 years into agreements that see no pay rises in FIVE YEARS!.
Much of the anti union rhetoric is manufactured, some by ALP members of the NSW house.
I will not bend to the idea unions are just about trouble making or that if we fade away bosses will be good and wages safe.
Nore will I bend to the unions who invented workchoices for Howard with tactics that shamed my movement.
I still back Rudd he rules as he must and he must sometimes say no to unions but he must never forget, not for a second some who work very honestly and very hard are suffering unions have a part to play no free run but no ropes around the neck.

Dear Belly,

There are many employers who try to discourage their workers from joining unions. Sometimes they do this by claiming unions are irrelevant, unnecessary, sometimes they do this through threats and intimidation.

But no matter their method, their reasons for doing this are nearly always the same - to shift the balance of power to them and away from the collective strength of their employees working together.

Attempts to discourage unionism usually go hand-in-hand with attempts to introduce individual workplace contracts.

The ABS said 19% of the workplace were trade union members in conjunction with their main job in August last year. This was down 89,600 from the previous year. However statistics don't mean that much. It doesn't mean that the drop was because people didn't want to belong to a union. People leave unions for a variety of reasons - they retire, take a redundancy, or change their job. The ABS also found that a higher proportion of full-time employees (21%) were union members than part-time employees (14%).

Before Workchoices my neighbour had considered removing herself from union membership because of the weekly fee it was costing. However, thanks to the support of the union in the latest wage negotiation, the
membership has paid for itself.

Individuals alone hold little power, that's why unions are so important. They give their members strength, bargaining power, support, industry-leading advice, training and advocacy, and a voice.

What next? Maintain and advance the wages and conditions of the members. As for the Labor Party - Unions are an important part of the landscape, but they're not the entire picture - as we all know. And scare tactics on behalf of some politicians won't work any more, as the last election clearly illustrated.

1. We need the Union movement even if its officers was not doing anything. When employers know that the Union exist, then they know that we are there and any time we could use our power to defend or claim our rights.
2. The Union movement must show its high interests, priorities for women rights, because the new members mainly will come from women. Really I can not understand why the Union movement did not put as its top priority the paid maternity leave when there are so strong evidents, reasons, acceptance and benefits. As a) Fundamental right in Europe (for conservatives and socialists) According to Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, 2000, Article 33, Family and professional life
1. The family shall enjoy legal, economic and social protection.
2. To reconcile family and professional life, everyone shall have the right to protection from dismissal for a reason connected with maternity and the right to paid maternity leave and to parental leave following the birth or adoption of a child.
b)Only USA and Australia do not pay maternity leave
c)Women and young labors will support it and it it will open a wide way for new members from these two strong categories.
3. The Union must follow its own way, not to follow always and blindly the ALP. Both sides must understand that they have different roles and goals.
4. Union movement must find ways( there are many ways) to create channels, to be in contact with its members and its wider base.
5. Union movement must promote open discussions on major issues and find ways for better relations with mass media, internet etc.
There are two special subjects migrants, multinational companies and sooner or later the Union must work on them but it will need open mind and some time.
Personally I believe the paid maternity leave MUST BE THE TOP PRIORITY AND TOP CAMPAIGN for the Union movement. It will be very useful for the ALP too.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

As usual Foxy you are a breath of fresh air, understanding the issue and I am impressed.
19%or 22% unions are no small minority minority however we indeed are.
What if the ACTU with union funds never fought for minimum wages increases?
Most who got that benefit are not unionists but the social justice of such minimums is relevant to the union movement.
No one fails to understand it was in far different times the union movement formed the ALP.
And wise men must know the ALP must govern in the interests of all not just unions.
Few realistic workers ask for anything else.
But in this wealth creation world[how did we let our selves think like that?] we are sometimes far apart.
ALP plans on the table are to yet again modify the party, good to see the party of change in this country try to stop donations even union ones, NSW shamed us all.
Is that a call to silence the union movement within the party?
My week has been full on from conference to interstate then back to construction sites.
Meeting bosses and workers all with smiles on their faces small issues fixed without bitterness , yet the public view of unionism, even from some in my party is far different than truth.
We however will fight for fairness long after I am dust and the question is will the ALP discard us?

Well what next? I have no doubts something new must come but what?
Increasingly unions throw themselves at the feet of the ALP and think in doing so they act in the best interests of workers is that true?
So very many including current federal ministers are on record saying the ALP must distance its self from unions.
I also have no doubt some unions must understand times have changed brains not brawn are todays tools best used.
A growing trail of evidence that unions loyalty to the ALP is not being returned must be balanced with the governments need to govern.
Long term the relation ship will be tested may not exist in 20 years but unions will, the need for them will, and an understanding of the relation ship is taking place right now.
The drafting of our national IR system will say much about a relationship.
Unions exist for reasons other than a party that is questioning its ties with us just maybe we should observe some of us who are in the greens camp now.
If not now it surely will be of interest as unionists are shown the door by such actions as those in NSW last weekend.

Well lets see what is next

As the federal scabs keep saying it will be change.

The unions spend too much time on labor. They should be looking out for those who pay their wages, the workers.

There are ways to halt this sell off but the union big boys are not listening as dont wont to hurt the ALP.

Labor gave us deregulation and the sale of the commonwealth back, which gave power to the banks to drain every last cent.

Now the power sell.

Here in charlton we have combet who is silent and not standing up for the people even though he is federal.

We have greg piper an independent for lake maquarie for state and he has been fighting and has made it known we are not happy.

This government with the unions backing got into power for what , their incompetence not to ensure facilities are kept up to date and fuctionable.

Where have they spent all this money.

What we need is a full accountability of funds and spending of this government.

When the unions decide its time to fight they should contact me, but i wont hold my breath as they are trying to keep the peace with labor and not the worker.

This is why they will end up losing and when they decide to cut the crap and stop shining labors knob things may change for the better and we will have people in government who will stand up no matter what and fight for their communities.

If these pollies had to pay for their election bid none off them would be their.

That is why i will carry on my fight at the next federal election.

I put my money even though very small where my mouth is.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent
swulrich@bigpond.net.au

The most important need for the people of Australia,when the ALP took control of every government in Australia, is a strong Union movement.
The total lack of regard for the hopes and aspirations of ordinary Australians has been demonstrated by the NSW Cabinets desire to flog of the Power industry to their personal friends.
The Rudd Government have gone overboard with the Big banks and embraced the Big banks bashing of "delinquent clients "who cannot repay the whole of their mortagage "overnight,"
The fact that most of the Big banks use the South Australian legal system to wrap up their mortgagors.
Labor Legal Eagles, members of the toughest union in Australia,the Bar Council or the State's Law Society,(Union.)have the upper hand in tying -up the poor suffering workers, both white and blue collars.
How can any government justify no pay increase for fifteen years in the pay rates of skilled tradesmen.
The basic pay rates have increased, but 15 to 20 years ago no skilled tradesman would accept the basic wage,but today without Union power workers have to take what the employers want to pay.
The price of a home was $40,000 two decades ago. Today at $200,000 for a workers home.A car cost $4,000 two decades ago today $30,000.
Nedd I go on.
OH, the skills shortage,import cheaper labour, so we can sack those Aussies who ask for wage justice.
Welcome to the New Labor Party.

"most of the Big banks use the South Australian legal system to wrap up their mortgagors"
BROCK, this is not fact its fiction, the only mortgagors they wrap up in SA is in relation to land located in SA.

The fact is that they do this not only SA but in every State of the quasi Republic but the problem is the way its being done in the forum being provided and who has control over the procedures used to enforce it.

The fact is that Labor, National and Liberal Legal Eagles, members of the toughest and the most corrupt and dishonest union in Australia,the Bar Council or the State's Law Society,(Union.)have the upper hand in tying-up the poor suffering workers, both white and blue collars, and SLAVES. The same Legal Eagles, not the Parliament, provides the forum to asset strip all of us.

"The basic pay rates have increased, but 15 to 20 years ago no skilled tradesman would accept the basic wage, but today without Union power workers have to take what the employers want to pay."

If they freely choose to work for less than the costs required to survive, that is their election, but today the boot is on the other foot is it not ?

Lets see housing state responsibility stopped building enough housing and started selling them off.
In newcastle part of the housing commision flats are to be demolished within 5 years.

Where are they going to live.

The government has been creating the increase in house prices.

Also the kevin 07 tshirts.

Why did they buy from overseas.

Also the stop the sell off tshirts.

why did they buy from overseas.

If labor and the unions do not buy australian then what do we have , hypocrites.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent

The only gropup of really good blokes we dealt with over a long period of time were the meat union blokes fighting to survive.

On The Front Page of the Gold Coast Bulletin this weekend
There is a story about the Music Union destroying Anzac spirit between us and Kiwis.
A country and Western Singer was apparently told he couldnt perform this year in the RSL Club as he and his band had for thirty five years.
I just cant think of his name at present and at almost 3am I am not about to start looking for the paper as this is no small building.

I do recall reading the peformer and his band were stunned by the unfriendly aggesive act by the music union.

He was told because he didnt have a Australia rep in his band he was no longer welcome to play at Southport RSL Club.

Well we need not worry to look out for our old Anzacs next time.

Its reported to have caused quite an upset In New Zealand and rightfully so.

Does anybody have any doubt what unions will do further to this country if let go.
Note not a word from Kevin 07. These empty headed loud mouth bullys need to be stopped in their tracks once and for all.

If the Kiwis were good enough to fight along side us why are they not good enough to play in our RSL club once a year as they have for the past thirty five.

What a mean spiritued act. I think we best contact this bloke and his band in NZ and invite them over to host a festival to protest unions.

Country and Western is very popular so hopefully the uni kids will 'rock' up and learn first hand about unions.


I mean seriously has anybody ever seen such a mean spirted ding bat mentality. Its so typical.

If I had time I would go to NZ and say thanks digger to this bloke. He came for 35 years to play her once a years out of respect

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/05/10/10929_gold-coast-top-story.html

May 11, 2008 10:34am

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Banned on the run - Kiwis canned

Kathleen Donaghey

10May08

ROCK musician Kevin Borich has been living in Australia for 35 years but he's apparently not Aussie enough to perform on the Gold Coast.

The '70s rocker best known for the classic hit Gonna See My Baby Tonight, was booked to play last night and tonight at the Southport RSL with three other Kiwi acts.

However, interference from the Musicians Union of Australia -- which demanded an Australian act be part of the show -- forced the last-minute cancellation of the Kiwi extravaganza.

The union had refused to endorse a work visa for one of the drawcard performers, NZ rock icon Larry Morris, unless an Australian support act was added to the bill.

Mr Borich, a NZ passport holder who regularly performs at Gold Coast clubs and took part in the tsunami charity concert at Royal Pines Resort in 2005, was not considered Australian enough, even though he lives in Maleny on the Sunshine Coast hinterland and pays taxes here.

"It's absolutely disgusting and I'm livid to the hilt," said Mr Borich, from his home last night.

"I've been doing shows in Australia for 35 years and I've never once been told I need a support band.

"We're just shattered.

"Thanks to the Australian Musicians Union the Anzac spirit is a myth."

The weekend show, dubbed 'A Night of Magic Kiwis', was to be a reunion of old mates Kevin Borich, Larry Morris, rock revivalist Tom Sharplin and reggae band The Herbs who have known each other for decades from their early days in NZ.

It had been advertised for two months, with crowds of up to 400 expected on both nights.

Southport RSL operations manager Damon Gerebtzoff said the sudden cancellation on Wednesday sparked numerous angry calls from locals who had been looking forward to the night of '70s nostalgia.

Please click on link above to read full story

Yes it is hard to talk about politics in this forum, it remains a great forum but it is truly hard.
In a thread about a relation ship so very old we get advice from TAPP?
or talk about things that have no impact at all on the thread.
Make no mistake Rudd is here to stay, his intent to rule for all Australians is clear.
The ALP will do much more for the union movement than the last mob, but the relation ship is a subject that will not go away.
My constant reminders there is indeed a difference in unions is true, but.
That difference is not understood by many, every bad action blackens the whole.
Unions in a world that has Labor governments wall to wall[at least till the NSW state election] must look for other paths sometimes.
Again and again unions give ground for the good of the ALP.
That ground is not our property it belongs to our members.
Recruiting members should be the easiest task in the world, they should recruit themselves.
But we under estimate others ideas and over estimate our understanding of issues at our peril.
Are we forever bound to a party that takes us for granted?
Just have to tap the depths of miss understanding Greg TAPP the bloke who flogged you in that seat is very left, has no part to play in the betrayal of the party in NSW.
He however would be silly to get involved openly just yet a very real chance of a party implosion still exists, maybe is the only answer.

Belly

let me say this

Greg has not spoken out he is there to represent the people has he, has he voiced his concern NO.

Rudd backs the sale, so this would mean his lackies back the sale.

When I see greg fighting for the worker and the people and not the alp then we shall see.

So Belly as you all now turn your backs again on the workers for the alp it seems to be time for the workers to save money from those who no longer represent them

but prefer to take their money

call it membership

and work for the alp.

As you may have not niticed i keep fighting for the people and worker and you lot keep fighting for the alp.

maybee one day instead of unions and the alp it will be

unions and the workers

And regards to the advice well even your own party doesnt listen and rudd has told you all to wake up, well it seems that the power wokers should have taken the money and not wasted their money on people who do not make a stand for them.

When the unions work it out that they work for the workers even though this will not happen and the ALP at election time.

Well it is their choice

Stuart Ulrich
Independent

As I leave the thread I need to put a few things on record the member for Charlton is on record as a fighter for workers rights.
Who could doubt that?
I am from another faction of the union movement/Labor party than he is yet I know how he thinks on this issue from another thread power sell off.
In fact many fights have been fought within the twin movements in the past ,more often than not the unions give in for the good of the movement.
While often it is the best result I have doubts it always will be , cracks are appearing that can not be hidden by white wash.
Some left wing unions are flirting with the Greens.
Other are considering a senate team.
I personally have few doubts the best answer is active union members sitting in ALP Branch's so they are heard[ not if in NSW even the brachs are not heard here] and not to rule the ALP but to keep a conscience of what the party is.
I again say this federal government is a great one but if it followed my state branch one day?
The future direction of both movements is not fixed in stone but the debate is so at least I tried.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent

Thanks for your sensible comments. i guess we can take it belly agrees with the Music Union.

Why was I not surprised by reading. (As i leave this thread)
Ho Hum Not Again.
Personally I dont think Rudd has a hope in hell of getting back in.

I think people used him as a 'tool' to get rid of JH. In which case he fits the job description well.

In that regard hes perfect. Did you see 4 corners last night? See them deny they tried to take carers payments from those poor people.
Did you know they intructed centre link to force neighbours to spy on people in the street on pensions

Now had they targeted doll blugers and unmarried mothers I would have said Good on them!

But the weak and sick? How typical of ALP. They bully and their are few brains between them.
Its really a worry for Australia. Look how they blocked abattoir workers from entering this country.

The only trade to have at least 4 conditions that no others are forced to deal with.

Its down right criminal and unAustralian. Look at the lies two weeks out from the election on Landline.

ALP got in on a lie to the public.

Wait until thenext election- not that far away really.

Thanks for speaking up for the people Stu

well said pale

As i still stay and fight the member of charlton was a fighter and now a labor patsy nothing more.

Now did i get flogged or did i lose this seat at the federal election.

No

I didnt lose the people lost as they pay for a representative just like the workers pay the union to represent them but get nothing as these people are there for the ALP

Stuart Ulrich
Independent