Actually Boazy, I do not need to read your basic summary of the Punic Wars to know what they were about, and the rise of Hannibal etc.

But I seriously do not see anything that resembles the neo-cons and any current situation, except in the most superficial of ways.

Carthage was an ancient Mediterranean superpower before Rome was an upstart colony living in their own filth. It was Rome that had to take it down if it had any chance of taking over the Mediterranean, the only way to expand was to take from Carthage. The 'Carthage Problem' was one of colonial type expansionism that had a serious and close to equal foe.

After Carthage's destruction of course, all sorts of rumours and tales were started to justify that particular genocide (and genocide it was), like they sacrificed their own babies etc.

Yes, I do see some resemblance between you and Cato then, but the comparison is not flattering.

BUGSY.. that was a much more meaningful contribution.. even though a tad critical.
I don't know why you compare me unfavorably to Cato, I explained that my 'war' is ideological not physical.

Now.. how about applying that briliant mind of yours to the Battle of Cannae? :) let's have a distraction/diversion from the 'heat of battle' and see how we might shape up as 'generals'... might be refreshing.
I'll outline a strategy when I see the first from another, then you can crit it's strengths (if any) and weaknesses....

Call this 'Mini Duntroon' grin.

Dear David,

Your version of events differs from mine.

Carthage was one of the greatest cities of ancient times. It was probably the first city-state to control an empire. Much of western North Africa, southern Spain, Sardinia, Corsica, and the western half of Sicily came under Carthage's rule.

The people of Carthage were more interested in trade than in conquest.
However, the Carthaginians used military power when they felt that it was necessary.

Carthage did fight and lose three wars called the Punic Wars with Rome, from 264 to 241, 218 to 201, and 149 to 146 B.C. The genius of Hannibal, a Carthaginian general, nearly won the second war for Carthage.

Carthage later became an important city in the Roman Empire.
St. Augustine was one of its famous inhabitants.

The final destruction of Carthage did not come until A.D. 698 - not at the hands of Romans, but at the hands of Arabs.

As for Marcus Porcius Cato the Elder, he began his political career under Valerius Flaccus, a Roman with great influence. Flaccus was impressed with Cato's service to Rome in the war against Hannibal of Carthage. Cato was known as a man who generally opposed change.

For 50 years after the war, Cato fought against the luxury Romans enjoyed as the city's wealth increased. As 'censor' (a high administrative official) Cato tried to restore simplicity to Roman life. He became known as 'Cato the Censor.'

It wasn't until towards the end of his life, when he became alarmed by the recovery of Carthage, that he used the phrase "Carthage must be destroyed." It had nothing to do with the Punic Wars - they had taken place much earlier.

Jeez Boazy, you really know how raise topical issues of the day!
<sarcasm rating=9/10>

And Foxy, your version of events seems to differ from everyone's! The city you may be referring to as 'Carthage' (destroyed by the Arabs), was the Roman one, rebuilt at the same site.

This is another link as why comparison with Cato is not favourable:
http://www.unrv.com/empire/third-punic-war.php

Boazy, while you say it's only 'ideological' you are in the same camp as the imperial expansionists, the destroyers of independence and peace. You may not want to physically wipe out your enemies, but your philosophical allies differ. How many people will it take to die before you realise what ultimate consequences your 'ideological' war will have (and is having)?

Bugsy, from what I recall from the history lessons I had some time ago, Carthage was Rome's first large opponent.

Boaz, this quote from you caught my eye: "My goal is the ideological destruction of anything which takes people away from God, and towards that horrible place called hell."

Given that secularism is an attempt to live without religion at all, including the concepts of god, do you then admit you're opposed to secularism, or are you going to qualify that statement?

Dear Bugsy,

I should have clarified the point I was trying to make for you, that is:

Carthage fought and lost three wars called the Punic Wars with Rome, from 264 to 241, 218 to 201, and 149 to 146 B.C. The genius of Hannibal, nearly won the second war for Carthage. But Carthage was destroyed in the third war. Carthage later became an important city in the Roman Empire.

Carthage was overrun by the Vandals around A.D. 430. The final destruction of Carthage came in A.D. 698 at the hands of Arabs. (my source of information is - The World Book Encyclopedia).