I once read a quote that shy people are selfish, because everyone is shy at first, and it's just the shy people who refuse to make an attempt to make those around them comfortable by making small talk or initiating conversation. At first I thought, wow, you're right, and being a shy person, I never thought of it that way. But then I thought, I am quite comfortable with silence in a social situation, so why is the extrovert's need for small talk more important than my aversion to it. I have always seen small talk as extremely insincere. People ask how are you, they don't really care. They talk about the weather, nobody really cares. I only really talk when I have something to say. Am I selfish?

Growing up as a very shy person, I heard loud and clear the message that there was something drastically wrong with me and I needed to be 'fixed'. I wonder if there has always been a preference for outgoing people, and a marginalisation of the shy, or simply just quiet people. It seems to me these days any personality apart from the outgoing extravert is considered flawed and in need of medication or counselling, or in need of 'bringing out of their shell'. Did society once celebrate the different characters around, or was there always a suspicion of the people who kept more to themselves, and it's only now physiologists and medical companies pushing anti-depressants and Ritalin have decided what the desirable personality types of the world are?

I find it strange the way neighbours of murderers or serial killers respond in interviews. They seem to either knowingly say 'yeah he was a quiet guy who kept to himself', or they bewilderedly say 'he seemed like such a normal person'. Now if half the people committing these crimes seem like such 'normal' people, why all the suspicion of those who keep to themselves?

Extroverts too commit suicide. Extroverts too go on killing sprees

I think perhaps we are just a bit too fast moving for a lot of personalities.
Ordinary simple Joe and Jane dont do as well now as say 40 years ago.
One day we will reach burn-out and have to pick each other up and really carry the weights we ignore now and do it with caring hearts.
I think theres a percentage of young people off in quiet rooms with lots of alcohol and porn and with witchcraft and this gets them a bit different as well.
Its where the dark spirit world will seperate them for bad acts...e.g. the shooters in the US.
We always try to greet people who come into our churches and try to make them welcome. It comforts many troubled folks.

Dear Usual Suspect,

I'm sorry that you somehow feel inadequate because you don't feel comfortable with "small talk." You should be comfortable with who you are. I don't think any thinking person is going to judge you. We're all different. How boring, if we all talked a mile a minute. A good listener has tremenduous value, in my opinion. And these days - it's the rarest person to find.

"Small talk" I think is an acquired art. I admit I do admire those that can walk into a room full of strangers and mingle instantly.
I'm not one of those people.

But I'm learning

No Gibo this isn't about religion. And I am sure there are also many many troubled folks who were sexually abused by their priest or overbearing religious parents.

Dear Usual Suspect,

I forgot to add that the "quiet waters run deep" type of person - is the one that I've always been drawn to. And, I've rarely been disappointed by them.

In any case it always takes a while to get to know a person - doesn't it?

As for drugs and anti-depressants. That's a different story. Each case has to be taken on its own merit. Depending what the problem is, and how serious it is - and whether the medication can actually help.
My mother-in-law for example, takes medication for alzheimer's (early stages) and she has not deteriorated in the past couple of years, thanks to her medication.

She was in an awful state before she was put on to her tablets.
So, it all depends on the situation.

extroverts who seek attention and approval from others that's why they feature so highly in the media. to be fair, they also generate enthusiasm and 'fun' in group situations. introverts aren't too great at generating discussion, which is why they are frowned upon by those who crave attention and interaction ("they should be the source of the my fun! how dare they be boring!"-extrovert). however, it's somewhat true. introverts are closed off and hard to approach.

usual suspect

I would think that overly extroverted people might also equally be at risk of derision, either being thought of as show offs or exhibitionists.

It would make sense that serial killers, for example, might keep to themselves, to avoid detection but that does not imply all shy people are serial killers. The townsfolk of Amstetten in Austria (where the 73 year old Austrian man imprisoned his daughter for 24 years) spoke of him as a friendly and outgoing person.

But, thankfully I don't think people hold such generalised or broad judgements about personality in that way and accept shy people as much as extroverts.

I can imagine some teachers trying to bring very shy children out of their shells in an effort to help them socialise with others but it is probably well intentioned. Teachers probably spend more time getting the extroverts to be quieter.

pelican,

' would think that overly extroverted people might also equally be at risk of derision, either being thought of as show offs or exhibitionists. '

I agree. That's why I also mentioned Ritalin. I loved that South Park episode where every child that didn't quietly sit through a reading of war and peace was prescribed Ritalin...

On a side note: I think Big Brother had tremendous potential as a societal experiment. It would be infinately more entertaining if they selected different personality types, rather than a bunch of look at me celebrity wannabes. But perhaps only look at me celebrity wannabes actually want to appear in Big Brother. That house is in dire need of a quiet, dry witted, understated person.

US "Normalising personality through drugs and societal pressure"

My first thought is Voluntarily or as prescribed by the state?

If someone wants to rectify a personality trait they find agonising to dealwith, then, just like plastic surgery, they should be free to seek such options.

If the State decides certain personality types should be "treated" to improve their socail value and conformity, I say NEVER.

I read the book "A Clockwork Orange" many years ago. That helped me decide, government should never have the authority to change the person, just like Stalin never had the authority to imprison people in psychiatric wards.

I worked in a prison recently, they conducted a series of psychological clinical programs there to help prisoners recognise the consequences of their action. That is fine, the prisoners were encouraged to participate but could not be forced. Nor could a prisoners personality be influenced, only his accountability and accountability is not a personality trait but a moral expectation.

But measures like aversion therapy, particularly using pain as a disincentive or as association with deviant behaviour is to manipulate the individual too much and is too powerful an option to trust to any government or organ of state. It starts with prisoners and then moves on to political opponents...

I wasnt on about religion Usual Suspect.
Christians never are.
Theyre on about Jesus and faith in Him only not any system. Millions miss this relationship. Him and you...you and Him.
You and Jesus in relationship via The Holy Spirit in you... is a world of difference from religious systems and its many priests.
If you find a good christian home/church youve found a treasure.
Its where you will get fed Gods Word and healed...if its got a Holy Spirit healing service.
Its a world apart from psychology and psychiatry or sorting out yourself.
People seperated by distance or shyness who lock themselves away are open to unusual thought. Man is a communal being.
He/she needs fellowship.
You did talk about serial killers etc?
Christians know that if lock yourself away and feed on a diet of dark music, alcohol, drugs, witchcraft youre going to be different. This is where the serial killers are coming from...from seperation from close relationships with others. And that poor diet.
Everything on earth is about the spirit realm. The Light which is God and the dark ones.
Absolutely everything.

Usual suspect,

I am not of the opinion that quiet people are boring. Some of the loudest extroverts I know are also the most boring people I know. And I don't think, honestly, that too many people regard those who are not the life and soul of the party to have something wrong with them. I think its we who make ourselves uncomfortable by worrying about how people may be judging us.

I used to be painfully shy as a small child but, because of my fathers high profile and our lifestyle, I was taught that it was my "duty" and "good manners" to put those around me at their ease.

The other day an acquaintance introduced me to someone else as being "Someone who is always herself and doesn't give a damn for what other people think of her." and I was really gobsmacked. I actually said "No, really. I'm quite a shy person actually". The acquaintance roared with laughter.

So, nope, no Ritalin, but yeah, I guess the social conditioning was put to work on me.

Hi again all
I just finished reading the rest of the comments, and found Col Rouge's to be of particular interest. I have worked in prisons too, and my experience was that the inmates I worked with were pretty good (although I suspect that some were treated with medications for control purposes than for their welfare). The staff (in many cases), on the other hand, who had completed psychological profiling to assess them for their jobs, were unconscionable bullies, and control freaks, simply because it was an environment where they could do that because the inmates had no way of fighting back.

A number of inmates had been treated with Ritalin in the earlier years, which in some cases had led to their amphetamine and "ice" addictions.

Cheers
Nicky

Gibo,

'if lock yourself away and feed on a diet of dark music, alcohol, drugs, witchcraft youre going to be different. '
As I said, Extroverts too commit suicide. Extroverts too go on killing sprees. Why do you think 'dark' music makes people different rather than 'different' people like 'dark' music?

Romany,

It's interesting the differences between how you see yourself and how others see you. I know my shyness has often been misinterpreted as arrogance. I have a couple of friends who have said when they first met me that's how I came off.

'I think its we who make ourselves uncomfortable by worrying about how people may be judging us.'

That's true, but I've had many people be quite agressive in trying to force me to converse with them on their terms, especially as a child. I remember fondly the one or two adults who would leave me be, and allow me to approach them, or not, however I felt comfortable.

Col,

I only ever saw the movie a clockwork orange, but I did like it and agree with your post. I read Brave New World and that also discusses the engineering of personality.

All drugs do is cause brain damage.Place yourself around people you can learn from socially .It is about being a person is being around people that know your doing well and they are positive in all they do as being around people is good for all.Constant television is not good for ones health.Read all the health warnings .Do not take drugs as exercise and food adjustment will cure many problems .Do not smoke or take drugs and drinking alcohol ruins your liver.David H.

US “I only ever saw the movie a clockwork orange, but I did like it and agree with your post. I read Brave New World and that also discusses the engineering of personality.”

We inverted our media choices US, I have only seen the movie BNW.

I am a great believer in “diversity” and “chaos”.

We are diverse folk and our lives, through the decisions we take are often chaotic. We meet and copulate and have kids and move on etc and it produces a heady genetic brew from which future generations will be produced.

I acknowledge the benefits of GM crops but am concerned about maintaining the genetic diversity of seed stocks, should an unforeseen blight inadvertently befall the GM crop.

So too with people, diversity produces the criminals and all forms of deviants which we have to deal with but it also produces the prodigies like Mozart and Beethoven. People who can make this humble existence better by the merit of their individual contribution.

Government messing with either genetics or with personality is too dangerous a path to ever contemplate.

"Eugenics" is as discredited these days and rightly so.

Governments or Doctors or anyone else "playing God" is evil.

Somehow, I figure would just miss out on future Mozarts and Beethovens and still get stuck with the Ivan Milats.

Social live always make their rule for equality and respect to other , generally they make rule for it self in public community drugs abuse or alcohol make our community care and try to help the social member ,as we can leaving this rule lets be adapted
AND This is a comprehensive addiction portal focusing on topics of alcohol and drug abuse. http://www.alcoholaddiction.org
get in touch with them and lets celebrate your social riding back on the track

lionmuri "AND This is a comprehensive addiction portal focusing on topics of alcohol and drug abuse. "

I think you miss the point