I'm still recovering from the intense emotional experience of Anzac day and the journey to and from it.

I want to share this journey and encompass some issues which may be of interest or help to others.

I departed Melbourne suburbs on Thursday morning, arriving at a friends farm around 9.30am. We travelled together through Gippsland toward a Sth NSW coastal town. My friend had spent 10 yrs in charge of a defense intelligence establishment, and has seen information at the highest level, during the most difficult of times. I didn't ask about it, and he never shared about it other than what I mentioned above.

He has come through a difficult and messy divorce. But as we drove, he mentioned a time in his life when, due to his mums mental illness and his Dads distance, he and his siblings were placed overnight in a government orphanage. This was many years ago, and he related how he'd returned to this place more recently to connect with his past. He suffered no sexual abuse, nor did his siblings, but they did suffer.
Strict discipline, rigid regimentation, but most of all, lack of love.

He broke down while driving, and cried profusely as he related this, and for the first time, I found myself with one who has personally endured such things.

We arrived at our destination after about 7 hours of driving.
A guesthouse/retreat of a major religious denomination, now managed by another friend, who also had responsibilities not only for the highest levels of defense intelligence, but included satelite deployment and the defense related aspects of these.

9 of us, some with wives gathered to recall experiences of 1965 during our training, up to now.
(.. continued)

Continued)

We all shared a light dinner, and at this gathering, some more colorful members expressed smiling sympathy for my travelling companion, at having to endure 7 hours of "Bible Bashing" from me during the trip.

Of course, it was all in light hearted jest, and when you've known people for 40 yrs, the over-riding emotion is love and genuine affection no matter what one's individual beliefs might be.

After a night of banter, and general ragging of each other about past exploits, and catching up, we all hit the sack.

Reveille was at 0500 then off to the dawn service.
Unfortunately, I missed the service, no one woke me up, and those outside all thought someone else had taken me.
But they reported back, how we were reminded of our 'Christian' heritage, by those running the service.

The March was at 1100hrs, so we gathered at a location for this. They in their suits and medals, some displaying their parents medals as well, me in more casual clothes. (I don't have a suit)
Then, the march.
What a wonderful experience. Aussies from all levels of life, came out, cheered, clapped, and we marched to the time of a school band.
All generations were represented, and I'm sure most of the young ones didn't have much clue about it other than "It's Anzac day"

The memorial service was intensely emotional. I learned one new thing.
The protocol for wreath laying where people put their hands over their 'hearts' in not that, the idea is to put your hand over the medals, and hide them, in humility, emphasizing that this service is not about we who survived, but about they who died for us.

(...continued)

For the rest of friday, we caught up with each other on a more 1-on-1 basis, sharing our struggles. Some of costly divorces, splitting of assets, others of the high's and low's of life and marraige and of career directions. One is very high in Qantas... many of your lives depend on his decisions re Air Worthyness, if you fly Qantas.

A funny incident happened to me during the night. I arose to goto the loo, and I sleep in Jocks and T-shirt, no jarmies. I staggered to the door of my room not thinking much about anything, and to my surprise one of the wives also had 'the call' at the same time. We almost bumped into each other as I exited the room. She then took my arm and escorted me down the hall with a smirk "We must stop meeting like this" :) and we went to our separate ablutions.

DINNER and BREKKY
At Saturday dinner, they all mourned my poor mates 2nd experience of 7 hrs of "Bible Bashing".. and on Sunday morning we left. Many a great convo was had at Breakfast, particularly with one wife who was a former US Marine, on the issue of mixed gender military operations.
I just can't imagine a bathroom with male urinals such that females can waltz past and have a shower..Not that it would bother me as long as no 'stares'.

THE RETURN.
I found this very informative. My mate related how he has found 'something' which works for him.(To reduce stress and bring about a tranquil state of mind)

"KNOWLEDGE"
He attended a 'knowledge' seminar which had 'no catch'. It focuses on exploring the self, what makes us tick, and gradually leads the participants to a physical act of placing the tip of the tongue on the roof of the mouth, and keeping it there. At the end, no book, no 'sign up' no nothing, just 'have a nice life'. This was not religious at all.
He asked me a lot about the background of the Bible, and I was happy to share.

Dear David,

What a superb and meaningful journey you've had.

Good for the mind and soul.

You described it so vividly for us and allowed us to share this

experience with you.

I enjoyed reading about it very much.

Thank You - it's a great start to the week.

I do not agree with you on this one, Foxy.

This is an opinion forum - not a Dear Diary. If DB is burning to share with others the knowledge of what he wears to bed, and how influential his friends are I suggest he gets a blog of his own.

I don't find it particularly hilarious that he got up to go to the loo at the same time as someone else. I am not particularly interested that he took a seven hour trip from somewhere to somewhere else. But I do note that this is not the first time he he has told us all how wonderful it was that people clapped and cheered him...and draw my own conclusions for his need to repeat this information.

His thread and he can post what he likes. But I do not see how an almost 1,000 word essay on How I Spent My Holiday has any relevance to an opinion forum. Or am I alone in this particular opinion?

Quite so Romany. I wasn't going to bother with this or the "They Clapped and Cheered" thread, precisely because they both seem primarily to be about Boazy's narcissistic need to be noticed.

However, I think you're correct - there's little more to this or the other thread than another "Look at me, look at me" from Boazy. Interesting that he's posting this twaddle instead of responding to more difficult comments on other threads.

Ah Romany/CJMorgan.
Have you forgotten what writing is all about?
Its all about stories.
The telling of stories and putting in landscape and adventure, people and events, seasons (the halcyon Spring afternoon and all of the wonderful things that happened that afternoon).
Its all about stories.
Not about quotes, or charts, or references from the researcher.
Didnt mum and dad read "Wind in the Willows" to you when you were young?
Its all about stories.
Thats why good children love the Bible stories because they paint pictures of landscapes and adventures.
BOAZ did really well with his story.
I thought it was cool and mature.

Dear Romany and CJ,

You both are two of my favourite posters on this Forum.

I respect your opinions very much.

However for me David's previous thread dealt with his experience of Anzac Day - which I thought was quite appropriate to share with others.

And, this thread is a continuation of his previous one. I actually enjoyed reading them both.

I didn't read anything more into either thread.

One of the things that I enjoy about this Forum is people's willingness to share their experiences with others - and I'd hate to think that this will be discouraged in future threads.

Hi there - * ROMANY & C. J. MORGAN *...

Yeah, I gotta go along with FOXY on this one. I must admit I didn't read anything particular into Mr BOAZ's thread. A little 'heart on his sleeve' perhaps, but certainly not narcissistic as someone proposed.

Interestingly, I had a bit of a go at BOAZ in another thread. I wasn't aware that he was a Veteran (possibly a Vietnam Vet. too?). Anyway, I'm sure he'll put me back in my box if I'd made a blue.

Something I must say though...I do admire his guts. At the way he candidly and perhaps vulnerably laid open to all, the entire emotional experience of his participation in the events he so eloquently described on ANZAC Day.

I'm in my middle sixties, and compared to Mr BOAZ, I'm totally misanthropic and quite emotionally deceased.

Further, I'd never have, or hope to have the necessary courage, literary skills, nor the requisite intelligence to even attempt to write a 'piece' such as the thread now under discussion.

Good on you BOAZ.

Well, I was just going to ignore it, but am happy to lend my voice in support of Romany and CJ.

David's stated aim at the beginning of his post was: "I want to share this journey and encompass some issues which may be of interest or help to others."

He has now shared the journey. Personally, I haven't found it either interesting or helpful. I agree with CJ's assessment that David is narcissistic and I'm sure most OLO posters understand what David's mates meant when they spoke "in light hearted jest".

However, David, maybe you should take Romany's suggestion seriously Boazy. Why don't you start a blog? They're easy to build (www.blogger.com) and you love writing and telling stories. Your buddies can comment. I'm not suggesting you shouldn't continue to post here, but a blog may be an appropriate place to share these types of stories — longer, more reflective.

Personally, if I had your story, I would have thought it inappropriate for OLO but appropriate for my blog.

It's something for you to think about.

Foxy and O Sung

I have no beef with people "sharing" things either - done a bit of that myself - it sometimes helps to explain why one is furthering an opinion put forward. What I am objecting to in this instance is that this is a forum where people are asked to express their opinions. It is not, as I said previously, a blog spot. There is no shortage of such places for BD to wax lyrical.

Alternatively he could submit such pieces as articles if he feels so moved. This would then open them up to a wider opinion and he could cop the kind of general flak he himself throws at the article writers on OLO.

There are limits imposed on this forum for a reason - and I consider that, by posting three in a row like this, he may not, strictly speaking, be breaking any forum rules, but is definitely bending them to breaking point.

I also agree with CJ's point about him starting new threads while he ducks out of others. Each time he is shown to be wrong, or is asked to account for himself, or apologise, or justify himself, he simply quits the thread and starts a new one.

As a result, we are treated to long, regurgitated diatribes wherein he simply recycles the same old stuff ad infinitum or at least until he is proved wrong (or any of the above scenarios).

This behaviour leaves him wide open, I consider, to CJ's charge of narcissism: anyone who can repeat the same things that have been proved incorrect or inconsistent day after day is obviously not interested in actual discussion and proves contempt for the reasoning powers and sensibilities of others.

Dear_Romany, CJ_etc....

I can clearly see why you might make those comments, and I absolutely welcome your critical voices, because if it were not so, we would all be in trouble right?

CONTEXT....is what I was providing. So much happened this weekend, that it could not be contained in just one post, and further.. while it is a bit of a 'dear_diary'.. yep.. too true, there are elements which might be of interest to some, but clearly not all.

There is much I cannot speak of, but I assure you, the ears would tingle to hear. Now, having provided a bit of a context, there are 2 more tidbits of interesting information (again..might only be interesting to some, not all..conceded.)

VIGILANCE and TERRORISM. AAh..you say... "he's back on his favorite theme" :) well.. maybe. But this has implications which could have or could effect 'you'. My intel background mate, was in a particular country town, and observed a high profile terrorism suspect with his family (in obvious muslim dress) parked in the street. Very few shops were open at this time, and the person concerned did not go into any near his car. He went around the block. "around the block" turned out to have in it an open 'farmers cooperative'... which of course is a place where one might conceivably enquire about... (go figure)

All of this persons charges were dropped, or, refuted for lack of evidence, then this: (from a leftist sympathetic blog/rag)

"Most recently, the government has imposed a control order on (the person) despite a court having quashed all convictions against him."

The "order" was imposed after the incident related above, which was duly reported to authorities who took it most seriously.

BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS... I must be circumspect here, but suffice to say, the only concern 'friendly allied powers' seem to have about this issue is "As long as they are not used against US" (you and me.)

I now have a much better overall (and public knowledge based) picture of arrangements with our defense satellites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optus_Fleet_of_Satellites#Defence_Services
Horses mouth is much better than wiki :)

I was wondering when the other shoe would drop.

With Boaz, it never matters where or how the story starts. As sure as night follows day we will at some point be treated to a sermon of saccharine sanctimonious twaddle, or a rabble-rousing rant inciting fear of the encroaching Islamic hordes.

This is classic Boaz.

>>There is much I cannot speak of, but I assure you, the ears would tingle to hear<<

>>My intel background mate, was in a particular country town, and observed a high profile terrorism suspect with his family (in obvious muslim dress)<<

>>BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS... I must be circumspect here...<<

There's always a point to the story, this one's just another installment in the whack-a-mozzie saga.

Be afraid, is the message.

Always assuming you believe a word he writes.

Gibo: << Have you forgotten what writing is all about?
Its all about stories >>

"Stories" are one kind of writing, and while I'm not surprised that gullible religious nutters like to tell stories of varying veracity, they aren't really very helpful when trying to discuss reality.

Foxy: << I didn't read anything more into either thread >>

Unfortunately, that's what Boazy's classic "bait and switch" technique relies upon. Suck people in with some self-indulgent pap and then back to promulgating hatred.

Boazy: << Now, having provided a bit of a context, there are 2 more tidbits of interesting information (again..might only be interesting to some, not all..conceded.) VIGILANCE and TERRORISM. >>

As usual, Pericles is on to him.

Pericles: << There's always a point to the story, this one's just another installment in the whack-a-mozzie saga.

Be afraid, is the message.

Always assuming you believe a word he writes. >>

Not only narcissistic, but hateful as usual - only this time disguised as sentimental patriotism. What's that saying about scoundrels and patriotism?

"I was wondering when the other shoe would drop."
That's too funny, I was wondering the same thing.

I agree with Romany et al, and I was going to suggest the same as Vanilla- for BD to start a blog.

If we all started to write our diaries on OLO it would become a blog place than an opinion forum.

PS

I wonder why Graham Young approved of this thread.
Not all threads get approval and this one should have been one that should have been denied for publishing because it is clearly not an opinion piece.

Actually, I learned something new with Boaz's thread. I did not know that the hand over medals whilst the wreath being placed meant humility. Thank you for that little nugget of information Boaz.

Now, some advice for those who are debating with themselves about contributing to OLO. Please do not let some of these comments put you off. The lesson to learn here is " If you can dish it out, you must be able to take it" All is fair in the world of OLO.

Well.... thanx for all the criticism.. I'll reflect on it.

Some of it was quite predictable. Pericles, CJ.. (might also be called 'tweedle dee and tweedle dum')

Its all good. But I find it curious that Pericles and as far as I can see CJ.. have nothing to offer much but criticism... how many topics or threads have they begun.... how many of Pericles posts begin with "Boaz says"..and then a 'hateful rant' of 'whack-a-boaz' :)

At least CJ does have some positive offerings at times.
Poor Perilous though.. his 10% positive/helpul contributions are sadly negated by his 'monomania' over my 'passion' .. but I did experience an education with that word 'monomania'..and the definition says there is a fine line between monomania and passion. I prefer to claim 'passion' for my side.

One reason for mentioning the achievements of my peers, is that we all underwent the same intelligence tests. Who knows.. might add a bit to my sagging credibility 0_^

Pericles and CJ.. (and the various sidekicks) you all seem to have missed one bit that I really thought would trigger some kind of interest. Perhaps I didn't express it clearly enough.

"KNOWLEDGE"... SEMINAR... so.. let me ask it again. Has anyone encountered this 'seminar' where after a 2 week 2 hours per session every few days leads to the physical act of pressing your tongue on the roof of your mouth, with a goal of establishing instant relaxation and tranquilty? Its not religious.. never heard of it before.. but found it interesting. (it is free, no book, no cost, no follow up)

I think the funniest thing is his friends 'forgetting' to wake him up;-)

'Unfortunately, I missed the service, no one woke me up, and those outside all thought someone else had taken me.'

You dont like stories CJ?
I love them.
I wrote one about all of the land north of where you are.
It took me ages to compile being a slow poke and suffering from fatigue.
Its a bit heavy and it sure has got a preaching of Jesus in it.
If you want a copy Im over on visions_gib@aapt.net.au.

Actually having had a thread rejected for being too long, when I only used 2 sequential posts, where the second was only half the 350 words, and it was in point form anyway, I cant for the life of me understand why this diatribe at least wasn't requested by Graeme to be condensed!

Celivia's nailed it.

Regardless of the other issues, I am at a loss as to why another thread was allowed on the same topic, saying much the same thing, by the same author.

"Regardless of the other issues, I am at a loss as to why another thread was allowed on the same topic, saying much the same thing, by the same author."

It might have something to do with the fact that David's contributions are always certain to provoke the very comments that have been posted.

David one thing if I can be so bold...would you be inferring the same motives to a white anglo-saxon male who happened to park a block away from a Co-op store? Products like ammonium nitrate are common purchases by those on the land (or avid non-organic gardeners). I am not certain but I think suppliers are required by law to report large purchases of particular dangerous chemicals.

I find it disturbing that your intelligence mates would pass on private and confidential information about a person of interest to intelligence agencies and police without any evidence of wrongdoing and if again, I read you correctly someone who has not yet been convicted of any crime.

You surely must have twigged the obvious by now, Boaz.

>>But I find it curious that Pericles and as far as I can see CJ.. have nothing to offer much but criticism<<

I can't speak for CJ, but you will continue to get a response from me every time you a) twist every topic into a sermon of sanctimonious sludge and/or b) take every opportunity to exercise your hatred for religions you dislike, particularly Islam.

It's simply cause and effect.

You make some remark about the comparative morality of your good self and those who do not follow your particular brand of religious bigotry, and I react.

You accuse others of "making it up as you go", and proceed to denigrate their lifestyle, life choices and their moral values. More often than not, you will compare these with members of organizations such as NAMBLA, with which you have a positively unhealthy obsession.

And I react.

You should also have worked out by now that I consider your anti-Islamic outbursts, and the tone in which you couch your observations, as inflammatory, and reminiscent of the rabble-rousing antics of 1930s brownshirts.

Sorry you see this as negative. My objective is to eventually shame you into backing away from your excesses.

It may never happen, of course. But I have no need to tell you, do I, that miracles do sometimes occur?

"It might have something to do with the fact that David's contributions are always certain to provoke the very comments that have been posted."

yes indeed, same as in UTube, same as why Howard poured millions into Cash for Comment Family Law [men's] websites, ie EVERYTHING is a business, hence my detailed explanations in my book that lawyers do NOT have any obligation at all to dispense "justice", but merely to make money

and in all this, "Boo Hoo/Agro" sells

so in UTube the most repetitive hard core swearing/abuse in the comments is welcomed but woe betide any constructive comment that seeks to SETTLE a matter [or a url to somewhere else gets aborted at birth]

david is a natural loony so is loved by the forum

he may well be a glove puppet [ie not a real person] which is a favourite trick in Cash for Comment sites to get the "toxic masculinity" at fever pitch

Most interesting comments from Pelican,Pericles and DD.

DD says it all.. 'generate comment'.. good grief.. I learn things every day here. My current fave is 'monomania' -Thanx Pericles:)

No one has yet commented on this 'Knowledge Seminar'..so I assume no one has come across it.

Pelican. One of the issues my mate and I discussed in our journey, was the checks and balances in our legal system. Its because of those, (rightly or wrongly) that the person (and others) concerned can walk free until enough evidence is presented to bring a conviction.

Sadly, as I was at the trial of the 12 men in Melbourne the other day, I came in on this.

-Prosecution was complaining about the Judge not allowing some aspects of testimony. They said "Your honour, this is crucial to our case"..
-His honour said something I didn't completely catch, but ended with 'So I see no reason to change it' (referring to his decision re admissability)
-The defense then proceeded to dredge up things from many years ago, to try to destroy the credibility of the prime witness.

But considering that one of the reported objectives of the group was 'blow up the MCG during grand final' (herald sun) I rather think its better to err on the side of caution..don't you?

The 'has not been convicted of any crime' is one of the most oft used weapons of lawyers (and leftards) to prevent justice being done or the public interest being protected.

If a man parks a distance from a store he knows might arouse suspicion if his hijabed family is in the car outside it, intuitively, given the background, one is justifiably cautious.

You see.. I'd rather put the boom gates at the crossing BEFORE the next fatality.

Pericles has yet to realize, that such things are driven by doctrine, not delusion. This is why he diligently dishes up the dirt on me :)

"The 'has not been convicted of any crime' is one of the most oft used weapons of lawyers (and leftards) to prevent justice being done or the public interest being protected."

Not only by the left David but I think you might find it one of the foundations of our justice system. In a civilised society 'innocent until proven guilty' is a premise and right of any person. The fact that David Hicks could be held for years without trial is an example of what can happen if we become too flippant about justice. Even the Prosecutor has come out recently stating that Hicks was not 'dangerous' and it was the real terror cases he wanted and the Hicks case was thrust apon him for political reasons.

The new anti-terrorism legislation was introduced ostensibly to make it easier for law enforcement to protect the public from terrorism and as you say before the BOOM gate has lowered.

However, when laws are enacted "in the public interest" we have to be careful not to change the very fabric of democracy and freedom as we understand it, or we become the perpetrators of human rights abuse rather than the protectors. Getting the recipe right on your "checks and balances" can be a tricky one.

I am not saying I disagree with all of the legislation by the way just that we have to be careful on what we 'wish for' and that the 'fear' factor is not over-emphasised or construed for various purposes.

The scariest thing about recognising that there are terrorists in Australia is that minority groups may be unfairly discriminated against which is the very thing we are trying to protect. I would also imagine that terrorist suspects are not left free to wander the streets as you say but are monitored very closely.

Don't imagine that 'innocent' Muslims would not park away from a particular store if his car was full of hijabed women - it is attitudes like yours that will make it essential that he does.

"David one thing if I can be so bold...would you be inferring the same motives to a white anglo-saxon male who happened to park a block away from a Co-op store? Products like ammonium nitrate are common purchases by those on the land (or avid non-organic gardeners). I am not certain but I think suppliers are required by law to report large purchases of particular dangerous chemicals."

this obsession by Howard, even stating on his Terror Fridge Magnet, about "fertilisers, like in Oklahoma bombing" really fascinates me, having read "Others Unknown" [first edition before Jones too got paid off] by the defence lawyer for Tim McVeigh

book was about the huge lengths the govt went to to blame it on a couple of ragarses and cover up all mention of a cat named bin Laden, who simply used it as intelligence of what would and would not work for twin towers

central to all evidence was that it was not a nitrate bomb, a nitrate bomb could not have done that damage [from Scotland Yard testimony] and that Tim and the Farmer [Nichols] had had no success in even blowing up old cars with it

meanwhile the cop who saw the real bombs while trying to save people was killed [by CIA I assume]

so why did Howard make such a totally false stance in his own terror campaign? - was this just Congoline stuff, but remember Oklahoma was on Clinton watch

so was the twin tower thing a totally bi partisan approved bin Laden gig given the cover up of his experiments in Oklahoma

and please read the book if you can get a copy, a real eye opener