It is very frustrating to see the lack of Indigenous representatives at Parliament House.

Why are there so few Indigenous Politicians in Government especially in portfolios where they could be directly involved in key issues for their own pple?

Does anyone believe it is a racist agenda that sees this occurence or is it simlpy the old ball and chain..paternalism?

Worldgirl
its probably a combination of various things.

One think it would NOT be.. "lack of ability"..... more likely things like pre-selection.

Also, it might be that most seats for parliment are dominated population wise by anglos ? Aborignal people seem to be concentrated in certain areas rather than dispersed throughout the community.

I hope we can steer well away from the position where we have to look at someones ethnicity for any reason. Sadly, ethnicity does usually have baggage. How could someone make decisions they KNOW will negatively effect their own communities interests, but they also know that such a decision is in the national interest... its a tough one.

Best solution is 'ban ethnicity' :) by intermarrying and removing it alltogether. Then we will only speak of 'Australians' for PM.
cheers

David
Do you mean like they tried to do when we first arrived? Remove the first people living here and put them into homes so they would eventually breeed out.
I think we should be very proud of these people who were the true owners of Australia.
Why do you think it would be in the national interest to leave people living in appauling conditions?
Why still would these people not be able to make a choice that might effect the whole of Australia?

Is this the reason we have left these people for so long?
Is this our christian way is it.?

Your right about one thing being it would not be because many of them lack the ability .

You normally have to be in a postion or had been there to understand how to sort out a problem and fix it.
Maybe that is why things are still such a utter discrace to this country as far as the way we treat them.
I cant help but think you feel we are a cut above them .
Perhaps I miss read you?
I know who I would rather be lost in the bush with between one of them and one of our polys>
A poly who was of aboriginal background and knowledge.
That would be the real deal.

The reason we have few Parliamentary members of aboriginal decent is simply a matter of numbers. Remember One nation got almost one million primary votes in 1998 but no one into the House of Reps. Yet the nationals with musch less votes got several members in.

If someone like Noel Pearson stood for the Senate, he would get substantial support. because he is well known and has a good reputation for speaking common sense. It would also help if he was a member of a major party.

Don't look for reasons that do not exist.

Banjo..I cant but think you do have a point there..Aboriginal pple are only, I heard said once..2 percent of the populatiion...but it really is much more than that..

The education system for example is not set up to best meet the needs of Indigenous pple..the Abl. citizens of tomorrow..the current european system does not even teach black/white history in any serious and truthful matter if at all.

Black kids simply feel alienated from the mainstream sysytem as it is and has been forever..retention rates here are appalling for the very fact that the kids dont feel part of it all.

A lot of teachers display their own ignorance toward them which makes it worse.

Why is it “frustrating” that indigenenous representation is low? Why should different people be in parliament to represent different constituents?

There only answer to the first one is, perhaps, that there are not enough of them and they don’t want to do it anyway – just like most of us. There have been aboriginal politicians, and they acted just the same way as other politicians do. In the second instance (aborigines representing aborigines) the idea is preposterous. Just imagine all of the different cultural groups in Australia wanting their own show in parliament!

The whole idea smacks of racism in the true sense: splitting Australians up into disparate groups. Isn’t multiculturalism bad enough for you?

They real percentage of indigenous Australians is more like 4%, incidentally

I would hope that one day we have an educated intelligent Aboriginal Prime Minister.
One that is not Party driven. I reckon it would be good.

Hi Ned, welcome to OLO from me anyway.. I see you have been posting only since October.. keep up the good work.

I'd like to know on what grounds you think I feel I'm a bit above the Aboriginal people.. anything from my posts ? Please elaborate.
You could refer to my article/posts on "Towards a harmonious Australia" for a wider view of my thought processes.

I have no desire to see Aboriginal people 'left in dire circumstances'... but I feel the way out is assimilation/intermarraige now. You could interpret that as 'we whites heading toward black' or.. the other way around.

Aboriginal people have much to teach us, and closer kin ties might be a good way to incorporate that knowledge to the broader community.

The only objection to widespread intermarraige I can envisage is a racist one :) suggesting that either we or they are superior and thus should not be 'brought down/ brought up' by intermarraige. I disagree entirely with that. We are all equal.

Leigh,

What a strange thing to say..of course Abl people want their people represented in parliament.All people want to see their own represented, how would you feel, assuming that your white, that if all parliament were made up of abl politicians, black ones so there was no mistake, now mind.

How would that make you feel?you would feel not represented i could guarantee., but then youve never had to live in the shoes of a severely disadvataged and under represented group, who is up there incidentally with the most disadvataged groups of indigenous people in the world.

Please get a bit of perspective .

Leigh - I actually agree with you on this one - apparently Ozgirl doesnt. Please not the fullstop after her PF

Ozzie apologise please.

PF,

Apparently this person has several alias's, and the editors are on to him/her, or maybe it's a monkey.

Pretty low to virtually hijack your nom de plume with the addition of a full stop. Security needs tidying up.

Leigh and PF,

Since, effectively, the matter of (mis)representation (in the Parliament) is the implicit topic of this thread, I feel justified in making a post commending you both for your sharp-eyed observation of an attempt to hijack the posting reputation of an established user of this forum. I have only been posting for a short time myself, but I am aware of some techniques and apparent loopholes that can be exploited to derail what could become productive or revelatory debate, debate that might not be seen as 'politically correct'. I hope this hijacking can be brought to a full stop. Literally.

Just yesterday I marked a post for deletion. My reason was that the name of the poster was 'perikles'. In my short time in the forum I had become aware of another user with quite a posting history with the nom de plume of 'Pericles'. perikles with a 'k' (and no capital letter) has a posting history of but three posts as at this date.

Without going into whether or not I agreed with the opinions expressed in any of the three posts of 'perikles' with a 'k', what is important is that as a newer user this person should not be able introduce confusion (given the rather widespread propensity for misspelling and typos)to the forum, pole upon the standing of the real Pericles, or, alternatively, enable opinions that in truth the real Pericles does not hold to be attributed to him. You wouldn't be allowed to get away with it on a ballot paper. Why here?

The capability is needed to be able to advise a new user (who after all chooses their own nom de plume immediately prior to their first post) that a confusion may be created by a particular choice. Perhaps the forum administrators could look at the Ubuntu Linux forum (www.ubuntuforums.org) for ideas in respect to the engineering of this. It has the capability for one user to send a private message to another, in what amounts to a chat room setting private to the forum users.

PF... Ozzie is completely fine about an apolagy when shes in the wrong, especially when she knows you havent overreacted like another 'superior princess' on this forum..further to which I believe you are at least a straight up kind of person, unlike a lot on here..so that is to be respected..

She wont be back..nothing like a good witch hunt for something that nearly everyone else on this forum is doing, ie:multiple ids, yes even Celivia (I heard that from a very reliable source, also Scout is Robert..:))Perhaps people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

Everyone on here has used more than one name..to have access to more posts and variuos other more unsavoury reasons.

Leigh you know nothing about this 'monkey' person, so hearsay and gossip are surely beneath you? Gossip never pays.

WAYFARER,

I assume, in claiming the use of multiple IDs by almost everyone that uses this forum, that you are fairly experienced in the use and ways of the forum. I am therefore prepared to accept what you say may have some truth to it. (I would also like to make the point that I have not ever, in my very short time in this forum, used any other posting ID. In this arena, less may well be more. I think it pays to learn the discipline of working within the rules, to talk less, and read more. That way, when you do post, the likelihood of it being worth reading by others may be increased.) Accordingly, I would suggest that the forum administrators look at the feasibility of attaching a marker to all user identities that post from the same ISP account, if that can be engineered and is legally possible. Such a marker, whilst not an infallible indicator, may then forewarn that a poster may be attempting to buck the system, and the credibility of the post be reduced accordingly in the eyes of other forum users, especially those using the forum for political sampling purposes.

To now attempt to refocus upon the topic, let me ask, have you ever considered that multiple IDs might be widespread in the real deal, ie. enrolling and claiming votes at elections? If that was occurring to any significant extent you would think the chances of election of more aboriginal representatives would be increased, wouldn't you? Unless, of course, the persons using multiple IDs were not really interested in increasing aboriginal representation in the Parliament. I don't know. What do you think?

BTW, who is the other 'superior princess' on the forum? As a relative newbie, I would like to be forewarned.

Forrest,

I am hardly likely to be that easyily drawn as a gossip on a public forum, suffice to say it will become clear the longer you post..

You speak of the rules on this forum..well you are in for a shock if you think that they mean anything at all.

Ive learned that the hard way.

So beware , watch your back..this is a political forum and just the very word 'political' implies dishonesty, subtle but mostly not so subtle.

If you upset the wrong person on here..you too will be the victim of your own witch hunt, right or wrong doesnt come into it.When you do,if you do,you will see how the rules are nothing more than a means to end that have nothing to do with free speech or equality for all under the rules.

"Everyone on here has used more than one name..to have access to more posts and variuos other more unsavoury reasons."

Actually not so Wayfarer. I know a few who have done that,
when caught they were banned. I have posted under my same
name from day one. So what you are claiming is clearly wrong!

Yabby if your going to have the temerity to quote me , please do it correctly..I said '..nearly everyone...'?

I know you havent but I also know a lot on here who do and dont 'fess up out there in the carpark..letting OG cop all the heat and even having the ordacity to invent ways to keep her out..I notice they are the proponents of not wanting the anonymous posting eliminated lest they be found out and if you look its interesting whos on that list..the biggest protestors in fact....they dont want real identities used because they are guilty of what they are crucifying OG for.]

In that list is Celivia, Robert and PF and others..I know for sure that 2 of those 3 are a strongly suspect another.

So, no you arent but some of your friends do.

Wayfarer, if you check your post of Friday the 27th, I snipped
your post word for word, so no misquotes at all! You said it,
I copied and pasted it.

Lots of allegations about double postings, also lots of speculation
and conspiracy theories, just very little evidence. With some,
there was clearly evidence. I happen to agree, people should abide
by the rules, I have no objection for any ways found to make them
play by the rules. They fall or stand by their ability to reason,
given limited words.

IMHO OLO is a place for some serious debate about various political,
economic and social issues, so I try and focus on that. There
are some bright minds on here.

OG in my opinion saw it more as a housewives chat club. All very
well, but wrong place. Perhaps she should have started her own
corner for that, much like the Carpark is for resolving disputes.

I stay out of the carpark because its no use trying to reason with those who want only to hear the sound of their own voices.

I doubt Og was treating forum like a housewife..not true but no matter..I find it very interesting that they have so lttle to discuss that they in there indulging in idle gossip and mudslinging at each other now theyve gotten over OG..whoa wasnt she famous for about 5 minutes?.Im sure Yabby that is a very professional approach from all of them to be engaging in such 'rivetting' issues.I think youll find the 'housewife brigade' is in there and is not only an OG phenomena.

The carpark should be shut down i beleive..its completely lost its purpose and now has become a place to openly bitch at each other..it was there to resolve disputes between posters but now its just lost its way.

Leigh declared "Just imagine all of the different cultural groups in Australia wanting their own show in parliament!"

Well I for one think Pauline Hanson,Wilson Tuckey, Fred Nile, and extreme right-wing lunatics have represented your cultural interests very well. Or don't you believe in equality of representation

Lets get back on topic guys.

There will be unlikely to be a large group of indigineous australians enter mainstream anything (including politics) unless indigineous education is improved. The first step towards that is to keep the little blighters in school. Their parents dont seem to care. No doubt I am going to get howled down for this, but the benefits of the stolen generation, is that a large number of those that were taken from their homes, were forced to attend schooling of some kind, and many seem to be literate, capable and productive members of society, who are in at least a reasonable financial position. Their children are also reasonably well off, and most have been schooled. This is to be compared to those that still live in missions or commission housing (where they havent burnt it) in country towns, particularly in western parts of NSW (I wont comment for elsewhere, because I havent seen it myself). I have lived in these towns, including towns where the indigineous population make up 80% of the townspeople. The parents dont care what their children are doing, much less care whether they are going to school. These kids dont have a hope, yet to take them away at a young age and put them in the position where they have a chance to succeed at life in mainstream Australia is cried down as racism and paternalism. Its the only workable solution to the crisis. We have a situation in Australia where there is an adoption crisis as well, with many more ocuples wanting to adopt then there are children available - why not integrate the two problems. You can address cultural issues by insisting that the children retain contact with their biological parents, and that they are schooled in their traditional ways. In this wasy you are taking nothing away from them, and giving them a wonderful chance that would not have otherwise existed for them.

Tuarus 29,

Pinned the crux of the problem very early on..it comes down to making the mainstream education system appealing to indigenous kids..at present it alienates them..it is well known that community educated kids do far better than Ind. kids trying to make sense of the mainstream system..there they experience rascism from other kids and in a lot of cases ,teachers..thats the case here anyway, I live in a outback town on the fringe the Nullabor and there is a large tribal base..retention rates for Ind. kids is practically non existent.

Knowledge is power,

The education system needs to groom indigenous kids from beginning to end in regards to this matter..from reception to completeion of University education..making ed. more relevant to them..history, the truth of history for Ind. kids to creatinga n enviroment they feel comfortable..to intensive eradication of racial attcks they suffer at school from students and more low key dis.they experience from so called teaching professionals.Teachers with any kind of racist agenda , no matter how subtle, need to never be employed or tolerated.

Promoting the importance for Indigenous teachers in all schools, in all levels..postion of principal as well to reperesnt Ind. kids to help them take their place in a world that recognises their impotance in the world as being an integral part how this great country works for ALL its pples.

Ranier your opinions on these topics are valued.

Well Country Gal, you are a very brave person. Now I am going to hide behind your skirt and say I agree with you.

My partner was one of the police officers that 'stole' children during that time, out around Wilcannia & Broken Hill. It was their job to accompany Child Welfare to remove those children and charge the parents with Neglected Child.

These children were indeed neglected. Parents that spent their time and money on drink and fighting with no knowledge of were their children were, let alone what they were doing. Toddlers in nappies that hadnt been changed for so long that their were maggots crawling out of them.

The stolen generation are the lucky ones and if we do end up with an aboriginal Prime Minister one day, my money is on him/her being a stolen child.

Country gal.. the 1st part of your post was fine ,until you then forgot to resist the temptation to publicly bash Idigenous pple yet again..

Education is the key as has been pointed out ..but statements such as ..'maggots comning out of theyre nappies..' etc then turned it into something else entirely.Abuse of children/babies is hardly confined to indiginous pple and when it is,as is the case with white communities, it is the exception rather than the rule.Media always report the negative..sells papers , ratings.

I live now in a commnity with a very high percentage of Indigenous pple..yes the problem, especially in relation to indigenous children and babies is heartbreaking...but there is one very important thing we must remember .The generator of most destructive behaviours in these communities is the introduction of alchohol by the white man.

Communities were functioning normally, respectable..kinship systems were strong and these people enjoyed a cohesive, healthy and spiritual existence..the children were happy and thrived in these communities, untouched by invasion yet to come.

Then invasion,..in come disease, disspossion from their land, theyre roots..their whole way of life destroyed..they were given alcohol in return for wages, tobacco and flour...werent they the lucky ones?
The black man ,it has been scientifically proven ,is missing an enzyme that means he cant metabolise alcohol.
This problem meant that the problem of alcoholism was always going to be a huge problem.

Now can anyone tell me please, that if the white man can come into a country and completely destroy a culture in this way, then 200 yrs later on a forum such as this have the hide to say..why cant they pull themselves together now and just get on with..I think is the height of arrogance, appalling ignorance.

Now we wont even give these poor b,stards a job because hes not respectable enough, and this community its true.So they wither away and drink themselves to death and destroy their families in to the process.

We speak of yet again violating another and most horrendous breach of human rights by taking their children away yet again?

WAYF - there is plenty of white trash out there too that neglect their children. They have their children taken from them to this day.

The subject here is aboriginals.

Now there wasnt too much 'science' around 200 years ago. In fact i dont think we had even discovered enzymes back then, so your comment that alcohol was always going to be a problem, is hardly fair. Who knew? 200 years later white man is still to be held responsible for alcoholism in the current generations of aboriginals? Please, we must be able to accept responsibilty for our own actions, black or white.

The topic is about Aboriginal Prime Minister PF...but having said that, the fact that the technology regarding that enzymes discovery wether it be now or 200 yrs ago is not the point..'who knew?'..
Maybe my point is not entirely fair, but then so is the comment that says when you destroy the fabric of a culture, bash it, try to make it and its pple into somethging its not and then say..'hey get your act together' is also wildly unfair..
The culture of the Indigenous pple took 60,000 yrs to evolve into pre-contact form, can they now rise from the ashes and morph into a coherent and responsible society in this time span.?No.

Do you not acknowledge how much damage was done?Too simplistic to say 'youve had you whinge..'

Imagine this happening now, Indonesians hit our shores, came to your farm, slaughtered your family, took your farm, brutalised you sexually and psyhically whilst your family watched, killed your babies ,stomping their heads into the dirt.. babies buried in the ground with only the heads exposed whilst settlers came along on horseback, and kicked /whacked them off with poles ..recorded in Abl Culture and history Uni text books as fact.

Banned from towns and gave you flour,tobacco and alcohol for wages,no home, no identity as you watched your pple die?

Then the Indonesians occupied your country and them deemed you unfit because you couldnt speak the language understand their customs and took all your kids away because of all the problems associated with that. Instead of helping you to grasp the cultural misfit, they simply herded you onto reserves to keep you out of mainstream and out of the way fullstop, then for the ensueing 1-150 yrs do nothing to help you but provide a government handout..to this day thats all theyve (the goverment ) has done..
No special Ind reskilling in programs that help to address any of this , no addressing the education gap..nothing..the most disadvantaged Ind. group in the world..yes they must take some responsibility you are so right, but part of a much larger picture.

Education is a key, but IMHO aptitude is the secret. You can
force people to learn all sorts of stuff, if they don't enjoy it,
their heart will never be in it, they will struggle along, but
thats as far as it goes.

We are all different. Genetics and environment both influence whom
we are. We love doing some things, hate others. We seem to have
a natural ability at some things, no talent whatsoever in others.

Rather then trying to force young people to learn this or that,
more time should be spent in finding out what their true passions
are and where their true talents lie. Everyone has them, sometimes
they just need to be discovered.

If somebody loves doing something, if they then get paid for doing
it, so much the better. Look at Aboriginals with talent for art.
Its high value, many are good at it. Mechanics is another.
They flock to it, paid or not, just kind of natural. Perhaps
we should spend more time discovering these natural aptitudes, before
trying to force people to learn anything. If we do things with
a passion, if we are good at things, we will do them willingly
and efficiently. Half the problem is that some people try to
push other people into things they simply have no interest in.
No wonder problems arise.

Yabby..I love your post and you are absolutely correct..
I see I have underestimated you:)

Aboriginal pple with few exceptions love their art, and excell in that area..in this town I see old black men bugging tourists etc to buy their art to raise a little extra..just old men with a home grown talent. They will sell it for a pittance..25 dollars in some cases far less..These works of art,and I say beautiful , because they are,..could hang in a gallery they are so beautiful.

Aboriginal children are also very skilled and if at schhol, every day involved an art lesson, theyd be their with bells on.

You are so correct and you made my point far bettter than I , we need to provide programs that are target specific..ie. geared to their no.1 interests
no.2. to their needs.

We are all naturally disposed to excelling when we are doing something we love, so it makes sense that we would succeed.

Art and mechanics? mmmm... perhaps I should gone this way too and forgone my Phd.

Rainier.. your comment cracked me up..but im sure you appreciate the persepective here..that there are a lot of indigenous pple left behind and for dead. Governments dont care.

It is plain that you are in a postion to use your intelligence because thats how i percieve you to be at least from posts Ive read so far.

But of course you are completely correct a lot of indigenous pple in Uni and I know quite few, so the examples above are not representative of the experience of all indigenous pple and rightly so that you point that out.

Rainer, perhaps you should have :)

Actually I know quite a few academics who hate their jobs. I know
others who have no aptitude at what they so, so they do it badly.

Life is a breeze if you can do what you love doing, have an
aptitude for and then people want to pay you for that.

IMHO alot of kids are pushed and shoved this way, or that way,
then land up stuck in a rut for a career, unhappy for alot of
their lives. So my suggestion is simply to spend a bit more time
finding out what kids are passionate about and then helping them
along that path. When I was a teenager, my mother tried to push
me down this path or that path. Luckily I was a stubborn little
bugger and ignored her completely :)

BTW IMHO a great mechanic is worth far more then a bad doctor.