ANZAC day. For the first time in my life, I marched. Missed the dawn service cos no one woke me up, and they (my mates) all thought someone ELSE had taken me.

Made it to the march, in a sleepy Southern NSW coastal town, a bit like Angela Lansbury's "Murder She Wrote" abode.

Emotion was close to the surface.

It was thrilling to hear the 'drill commands' barked out by a former submariner, Parade.. attennnnTION! By the Right, quick... MARCH!

We had formed in 3 ranks, and our group of 9, all from our apprentice intake of 1965, suddenly grew by one, a ring-in "Yank"..

We were arranged "Air Force, Army, Navy" as it was the RAAFs turn to be highlighted in this area.
Not exactly a huge crowd for the 200 meters or so we marched, but all who could came. They made a point of cheering us, and clapping.

We then went to the memorial service at the country club.
The most central and in part contradictory symbols were 2 silloetted soldiers presenting arms, facing away from a central cross with "Lest we forget" vertically and horizontally in the segments.

Many of us choked up at the slightest provocation. But for me, while the historical context will differ from war to war, the one thing remaining the same, and which the cross symbolized is "greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend" (Jesus, John 15:13)

Daivd! You want to pull the heart strings of all the human beings. You have be brainwashed!, and this is not your fault. If Iam not talking sense, my life's learning's, has been a waste of time.

Give me your true thoughts, if you have both feet on the ground.

Dear David,

Thank You for being so open and sharing your emotional experience with us.

All I did was buy a 'Digger's Hat' badge to support the RSL - and I watched the parade on television.

However, I too had a lump in my throat quite a few moments - so I can only imagine how you must have felt actually taking part.

God Bless and Take care.

Boaz,

1. I hope you found some comfort in your ANZAC day, met old friends and enjoyed reminiscences. What do you think of the Govenment that put there?

" " 'greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend' (Jesus, John 15:13)" " - Boaz

2. Do you feel the clergy should fight wars, front-line, with gun in hand?

3. There is question for you on another thread:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/compose-message-general.asp?discussion=1722

Cheers.

Boaz, as well as all the heart-on-the-sleeve sentimentality, did you ever stop to ponder your own position in all this as a Christian?

Forget for a moment the "greater love" bit, because as you well know that remark was not made in the context of war. Think more along the lines of "thou shalt not kill".

If you had been called upon, would you have killed the enemy that your government had determined?

How does this sit with your Christianity?

Because surely you don't permit yourself to pick and choose which commandment to observe and which to ignore?

That would seem very close to "making it up as you go", would it not?

Hi there people.

Of course, in the limit of 350 words, there is no possibility of encomassing all that took place, all that was felt, or all the questions which surely deserve consideration.
I didn't try, I thought I'd wait until the thread got going for that.

Foxy..thanx.

OLIVER.
1/Political Context: The question about the government which put us there (presumably you mean't Gallipoli?) This is a complex question. I absolutely know that most Politicians are:
-Self seeking
-Egotistical
-Represent certain 'interests' aside from or included in their political machinations.
-Make poor decisions about the 'people' because of all of the above.

2/ Historical context. Yet, in spite of all the points above, we are also part of History, 'our' history, and this inevitably involved alliances, obligations, and sacrifices, all of which are aimed at our survival. The primary objective of all these is.. the last, our survival, or.. perhaps being more realistic, the survival of those who run the show, and the retention of their power and privilege?

It would not matter which version of human government was in power, they would all be the same.
Sometimes we (the people) must choose, fight with them, for our greater survival against an enemy who would be far worse to us, or do nothing, and actually assist that enemy to overtake us and our families.
Our attack on Galipoli was in the context of those military alliances, and aimed not at extending territory as such, but in defending ours and those of our allies. The Ottoman Turks were equally if not more guilty of aggression, and demonstrated clearly that if given the chance, they would have formed their own version of the 3rd Riech and stamped their religious, social and political footprint over the whole world. Only stopped at the gates of Vienna on Sep 11/12th 1683 (notice the date?)

Strategic defeat of the Ottomans was neccessary.

Dear Pericles
your cynicism is not difficult to recognize in your post, but nevermind.

Perhaps you would do well to look at the commandments in their broarder context and do some research.(something u r good at)

In short. The commandments were given at the same time, or close to it, as the other Levitical/Mosaic commands, some of which included the death sentence for particular acts. You are left with a number of possibilities in regard to the commandment 'do not kill'.

1/ God was confused, did not realize that later, or in other laws He would be saying "Kill" those who do such and such.
2/ The Laws are purely the construct of tribal Israelites who simply 'forgot' that they had already said "Don't kill" in the commandments when they 'came up with' the others which clearly do say 'kill'...

3/
a) The most reasonable, that "Kill" is being imprisoned by your own views, to mean 'this much and nothing more' rather than allowing the overall context to interpret it.
b) The English translation of 'kill' is poor, and would be better translated "Kill without just cause, or murder".

The scriptures have been around a lot longer than both you and I together, and I don't feel you can seriously or validly lay the 'MIUAUG' charge in this case.

Jesus welcomed the Centurion into the family of God, a man who's responsibilities included carrying out death sentences on rebels.
(Romans 13:1-5 relates)
Me personally ?
In a war in defense of freedom and this land, I have been and would be standing with my fellow Aussies at the front line if needed.

Dear Evolution.

honestly, I'm not sure what you are getting at?

"My true feelings"?

About what?

For me, the sight and experience of a sleepy small town, where wonderful passionate and committed Aussies emerged from the woodwork.. including the ex SubMariner who gave the drill commands, the 3 services, the comaradery, the solidarity, the sense of 'part' of a great nation, of a unique people, and within that larger community, spending some days with my old intake, from 1965, who are as close as brothers, was overwhelmingly gratifying and fulfilling.

If you could have been there, in the guest house, at the table, (a bit like the 'last supper' as it included a chapel) you would know what I mean.

Please be more specific about 'what' I'm supposed to have true feelings about?

Boaz, why would you immediately assume Gallipoli?

>>The question about the government which put us there (presumably you mean't Gallipoli?)<<

ANZAC Day is surely not restricted to that tiny piece of military history?

>>The Ottoman Turks were equally if not more guilty of aggression, and demonstrated clearly that if given the chance, they would have formed their own version of the 3rd Riech and stamped their religious, social and political footprint over the whole world.<<

Only you could unashamedly riff from that narrow world view, to a sneak attack on your own favourite enemy.

Are you suggesting that we were at Gallipoli simply to turn back the heathen hordes? The irony was, of course, that our defeat at Gallipoli indirectly led to a division commander in the same battle becoming the leader who transformed Turkey into a democratic secular state.

Ex spinis uvas.

>>Only stopped at the gates of Vienna on Sep 11/12th 1683 (notice the date?)<<

Hmmm. The significance of the date is somewhat muddied by the fact that in 1683 Vienna had moved to the Gregorian calendar, but England (and colonies) had not.

Not only that, but it is generally agreed by historians that the decisive battle took place on 12th, so either way, your attempt to link a distant historical battle with 9-11 fails the test of reality.

By the way, was the Battle of Vienna waged on political or religious lines? And in what significant way does it differ from the Battle of the Boyne?

>>your cynicism is not difficult to recognize in your post<<

I'm glad that got through.

Because your ability to "interpret" a commandment when it suits you constitutes a far greater level of cynicism than I could ever muster.

Coupled, of course, with your steadfast refusal to offer the same courtesy to religious documents of other persuasions.

One rule for them, one rule for Boaz.

You really are the past master of "make it up as you go", aren't you?

Daivd. Can you talk with-out quoting the bible?

Who are you without god?

Do you see yourself as the son of god?

Can you see the world without god?

How do you cope with the new world?

Daivd its a very clever in what you are doing. If you quote the bible, it will make others look at it too contradict you.
Very smart. As you can see, its working.

All the best.

EVO

Boaz,

Thanks for your reply.

No I was not referring to WWI and the "shot that was heard around the world". Taht was royalty and lunatic politicians allowing matter get completely out of hand. JFC recalled teh "Guns of August", when dealing with the "Missiles of October".

No, I meant your own involvement. Presumably, Vietnam. Did/Do you believe the Government in what they told you what you fought for?

EVOLUTION... not sure where ur coming from there. but have a nice day anyway.

OLIVER.. good question. I joined the RAAF when I was 16 and knew ZIP.

Not much knowledge about history or politics. I just did what I was told. Regarding Vietnam, my opinions were formed much later.. when I read more. I didn't do much 'fighting'.. I was only there for a total of about 5 hours over two trips. My work was with the transport squadron and avionics support. (in Australia)

I pretty much only knew 'we were fighting the commies' I guess..

I would not be very enthusiastic for a similar war these days.

ANZAC day should not be viewed in any way as a glorification or justification of 'all' wars in which we participated. It's about remembering the sacrifice of those who gave their lives for us.
It's a tragedy when governments direct their military forces into conflicts which have no real moral justification. But lets blame the government, not the troops.

The most important point for me out of all this, was the sense of 'Aussie Solidarity' which came through. It's precious mate.

well I don't share your enthusiasm David for any of the military hype you are glorifying

perhaps it is because I HAD direction in my life and put myself through engineering, but was FORCED by Menzies, even without being able to VOTE for or against his Yellow Peril Congoline, to endure 10 weeks of Basic Training Hell in Wagga in 1967

and I was one of the 80% of Nashos that was not ALLOWED to go to Vietnam to get our Housing Loan

and because I was only conscripted for "political purposes", I am not officially a "Veteran", so don't get my pension at 60, like David and like those of the Greer gender.

and after I tried to march back in 1969 I was told by RSL I couldn't and people spat on us calling us baby killers [surely you remember that David]

Howard wanted to clear his conscience by giving me a tin medal so I told him to shove it

even did a video to show what a lovely time I had

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dOBZcN-j1KM

Hi DD... clearly you have a bit of an axe to grind... understandably.

My solution might seem a bit trite, but its the only one I know which 'works'.....

Don't have any faith or confidence in "this world and its managers"

I gave up on that long ago. There is no party or person who is not vulnerable to all the things you mentioned in your vids (I checked out a couple)

Please be careful about a condition I learned about from Pericles "Monomania" (look it up).. I sense you have crossed the line from 'passion' to monomania, and it could impact your health.

If you are looking for "justice" and fairness from Governments, mate.. 4get it. Turn your life over to Christ, and enjoy loving fellowship with the saints at some local Church :)

I managed to get a war service loan but only served 7.5 yrs, and was in Vietnam for only 5 hours.
They changed the legislation in the 70s I think and made it retrospective, such that we could get that loan.
I got $25k at pretty good rates. I have no pension now.. that applies only after 20 yrs continuous service.

Check this bloke out.. he might give you a diversion :)

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qrPwYEnL03A&feature=user

"Check this bloke out.. he might give you a diversion :)"

exactly as I pictured you davo

did you say somewhere you are a blood sucking lawyer?

Hi DD..no, I'm not like that bloke, nor am I a bloodsucking lawyer.

cheers mate.