Col, ok, if you won't take China, how about Vietnam, which has found that executing around 100 people a year has not deterred drug dealing or use. (See here: http://www.thanhniennews.com/politics/?catid=1&newsid=21785 ) In fact, according to the VN government, drug crimes are increasing. (see: http://www.mofa.gov.vn/en/tt_baochi/pbnfn/ns041116144918 )

The war on drugs is a failed policy.

found that executing around 100 people a year has not deterred drug dealing or use.
Vanilla,
I look at this from the viewpoint that drug couriers & pushers in those poorer countries are literally forced to do that just to survive as there simply is no other income. If they get caught & executed that is what they are forced to risk. In a western country drugs & pushing are not a necessity to survive. In our society drugs are purely for self indulgence & when things go off the rails we non-druggies are forced to bail these useless morons out.
I say put a stop to free medical aid for voluntary addicts after one incident.

Palimset, you’re right about OHS but why does that make the above posts irrelevant? Nobody in this discussion claims that people should be able to turn up at work stoned, drugged or drunk. It would also be dangerous to work after taking prescription medication that causes drowsiness.

Pelican, thanks for that Oasis link, I watched the beginning and will watch the rest later. My heart goes out to these young people. No matter how much the charity workers do, there’s no end in sight.
The cause, I’d agree, often is bad parenting.

Col: “To fix the parenting issue we would need to licence people to be allowed to become parents…I would find, as a libertarian, an intolerable intervention.”
I agree. Free and voluntary parenting courses will do some good, but may not reach the parents who need it most.
One of the better options would be (and this is gonna sound repetitive because I’ve said this many times in abortion discussions) comprehensive sex education throughout High School, free contraception so that most unplanned pregnancies can be prevented, and legal, safe abortion including the RU486 non-surgical option to end early pregnancies.

Getting rid of the baby bonus may be a good idea, too; I’m sure that the govt could spend this money more wisely e.g. providing help and programs that benefit all the neglected and abused kids that already exist.
About the govt and law- I understand your perspective but I always assumed that legal rights are somehow connected with the law of the govt.
Anyway, one of the reasons that I object to the death penalty is that I think that the legal system is not always fair and right.

Asymeonakis, good point about different kinds of dealers. Dealers will lose their power when drugs are decriminalized.

Individual, does a civilized society turn its back on people who are struggling with addiction whether it be taking legal or illicit drugs, indulging in fatty foods, taking extra risk by not exercising- or playing dangerous sport… we’d have to judge everyone on their lifestyle choices before treating them.

I tend to agree with most of what Col, Pelican and Celivia have had to say, but there seems to be some aspects not covered.

For example. Col can you, or anyone, find stats relating to the ammount of drug use in a country/society that now has very serious penalties, where they did not previously? In particular on dealers.

For those advocating legalizing drug use. Can you provide evidence that legalizing drugs actually decreases the use? Often alcahol is used as an argument to support legalizing drugs but then it is atated that alcahol is a far bigger problem than ilegal drugs. What is to stop drugs becoming a far greater problem if legalized?

Col,
Or the opposite. i.e. A country/society where previously there were very serious penalties and have since relaxed or lessened the penalties.

Of all the things we have tried, we have never got really serious about penalizing drug dealers. It would be interesting to see if a very tough stance reduces the incidence of drug taking.

Hi Banjo,
Perhaps it would help not to advertise drugs once they are decriminalized. Alcohol is being advertised but smoking has been on the decline ever since they stopped advertising tobacco and educated about the risks of smoking.

I did a quick search as I have to leave soon, but for now this seems an interesting site (albeit stats are from 1998-2001) if you want to see a comparison of the US who are spending millions on the drug war and the Netherlands where some drugs have been decriminalised.
There are some other interesting chapters on this Drug War Facts site as well.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm