It is a mystery to so very many and at least in NSW a failure of the roads authority that motorists still do not understand them.
Radio talk back and local Medea is full of peoples complaints about roadworks.
Mostly wrong too complaints about being booked for speeding and such.
It seems people spend half their time complaining about the condition of the road and the other half about it being fixed.
However by far the most complaints are about signs in place but no work in progress.
Here in NSW at least the RTA has flailed to educate motorists.
Yellow road work ahead signs are to explain driving conditions may have changed due to continuing road work , along with the not as old changed conditions ahead sign.
Speed reductions are the same 24 hours usually because of a real danger.
That roadway in working hours is now a factory floor, the workplace of many.
After work? not as safe as it once was but while deaths continue at such places and massive numbers are fined roadworks are still not fully understood by many motorists.
Recent survey found 60% of passing motorists drove at 20% above the new imposed speed limits on such a site.
In one case the NSW RTA funded, yes they fund much police radar, was removed from a construction site.
What price human life?
It had been in place there for 30 years!
An old RTA in fact DMR in the old days consideration in road building was that roads should forgive a motorists mistake.
Why is so little spent on education about roadworks?

Belly:
Human Beings + Motor Vehicles + Vehicle Fuel + Registration Fees + Comprehensive Insurance + Third World Road Conditions = One of the most capital raising con jobs that we are all suffering,....and the situation is NOT getting any better!
We hear the authorities "rabbiting on" about the increasing road-toll, but we have a deafening silence when it comes to the increasing number of vehicles taking to the roads!.....on a per capita basis the road toll today is no greater than it was in the 50`s,.....however it provides ALL the beneficiaries of this "Golden Goose" (the automobile and it`s associated costs) with a never ending and rapidly escalating source of "easy" revenue.
I would like a quid for every windscreen that I have had to get changed over the years, simply because the local authority`s workmen no longer sweep away the gravel left after a typical "henpecking" job on the subject road....(the same "repair" disintegrating again during the following few days!)
Another classic windsreen destoyer, is the simple act of passing a vehicle coming the opposite direction on a narrow (single vehicle width) road!.....I generally slow right down and edge off the road, whilst the other driver always seems to continue at full speed but also rockets off the edge of his side leaving the bitumen virtually empty! ...this is usually accompanied by his supposedly "courteous" wave of the hand accompanied by a shower of road-edge stones!....Driver Education?.....a joke!
I remember, when in the 50`s, all the roads were swept by a machine called a Road Sweeper which was utilized to remove debris and stones from the road surfaces!.....but today obviously we the motorists are NOT paying enough loot to allow this sort of luxury!
Has anyone noticed that around all the Metropolitan areas we are seeing a plethora of Toll Roads, Tunnels and By-passes? .....all to speed-up the traffic flow?.....why do we pay Registration Fees and Fuel Excise?.....or more precisely "where is all this Revenue going to?"

Belly, nearly every single roadworks site that I have passed through over the last decade has presented a totally schitzo approach to traffic management. The essence of the problem is; the use of temporary speed signs that are lawfully binding but which are used in only a loose suggestive manner.

The different State Main Roads Departments and local authorities deliberately put up signs with a far slower speed than is necessary in many instances, if not all the time as an unwritten policy. Where a 40kmh sign is used, a 60 sign would do. A speed 20kmh over that stated on the signs is practiced by practically every driver and accepted by roadworkers and police.

There is a heightened conflict between those who desire to do something near the speed stated on the signs and those who don’t give a damn what the signs say.

There is nearly always a long distance between the temporary slow speed signs and the actual roadworks area, and inexplicably, a long distance on the other side before you can legally return to the normal speed.

In many instances, especially on the open road, if you dare to go anywhere near the speed stated on the signs, outside of the actually physical roadworks area, then you’ll incur the wrath of a driver behind you, by way of tailgating, dangerous overtaking, horn-blowing or full-on road-rage.

This places a great deal of pressure on people who want to obey the law to roll with the flow, which means exceeding the temporary speed limit by 20kmh or often quite a lot more.

Then, once in a blue moon, the cops book people in roadworks sites, including many who would be law-abiders, but have come to realise that it is much safer and a whole lot less stressful to do the same speed that the majority doing, regardless of the legal situation.

Needless to say, I’m utterly disgusted. This situation could so easily be remedied. But there just seems to be no will to do so.

In the two posts above proof roadwork sites confuse us.
Ludwig often the shoulders of a road under re construction no longer exist.
A deep drop just out of sight may exist instead, bumps dips Sharp turns can be found.
Road works need very long start and end zones ,think with me on this, if you stop peak traffic for 5 minutes they form ques do they not?
Would you have the last truck to get in line travel at 100 klm an hour?
While I am critical of the authority's, you can be too, they do not always enforce their own rules, traffic control, management is a technical issue.
A traffic management plan and a car movement plan must be in place.
That is based on the speed limit on that road , average speed of all using the road ,numbers of motorists , escape routes for workers are considered.
The road conditions have changed once work begins speed is thought out to preserve life motorists and workers.
The road is now their factory floor, how fast can you run? if an out of control truck heads for you?
That road broom, they exist still, it has always been a practice to sweep the road within 24 hours in fact it is a crime committed against motorists not to do so.
But lazy councils, contractors ,and road authority's use signs yes loose stones drive carefully in place for weeks to stop claims, and never sweep the road
But if they sweep too soon? not a stone would remain on the road.
An understanding of roadworks will find much that is dreadful crime against motorists but the reverse is true too.
Last night long after dark my trip into a 80 klm an hour death trap called a road work site in rain saw 5 semi trailers over take in convoy doing far more than 100 klm.
5 traffic controllers died at these sites last year many more motorist do each year.
Driving for the conditions of that changing road are not considered by many but blaming the road is?

Why do roadworks sites need “very long start and end zones” Belly?

Of course some lead-in distance is needed, but I can’t think of a reason in the world why there would have to be any significant distance between the actual end of the roadworks area and the sign that allows traffic to return to normal speed.

Quite often there is no significant end zone when the operation is being conducted by local government workers. But it seems that Main Roads have the policy of always having a ridiculously long end zone.

This is where it is just impossible most of the time for any driver who desires to stick to the law to do so if they have any traffic behind them. It is an offence to anyone’s sensibilities to have to keep travelling slow when they have obviously passed the zone where there is a need to go slow.

Ludwig I do not wish to be a smarty you are a poster I have always respected.
But bare with me, I have an advantage I undertook training in this area and passed every 90 minute test in about 23 without mistake.
First traffic travels over the legal speed limit not all but most do.
In slowly reducing the speed of traffic before it gets into the work zone you should have buffer zones.
That is reduce speed from 100 to 80 for a length of road pre work site, then to 60 again as a traffic calming tool.
By law work cover law, if workers are within a set distance from moving traffic the speed must be reduced again to 40.
This all takes place in good sites the first 2 reductions in that long lead in before the work.
Have you seen traffic banked up for a kilometer? sometimes even twice that? more if the delay is long.
The long speed reduction zones are storage areas for that traffic, that is signs warn of work speed limits reduce speed and each car or truck added to the waiting traffic should be safely stopped at a safe speed.
Not fearing a truck at speed rounding the corner unaware roadworks are even in place.
So why am I concerned?
In my state authority's , work cover for a start are useless no policing takes place.
RTA councils and contractors do not obey the rules people do die and white wash is used not care.
Those roadwork sites are factory floors speeding trucks travel within 2 meters of workers and push car drivers some with reduced skills to hard in already dangerous roads.
No true duty of care is fourth coming from those who make and break the rules for traffic control at work sites.

Belly, I have no problem with the lead-in zone at roadworks sites, be it one, two or three (100kmh down to 40, where appropriate) progressive reductions in speed.

But what about the end zone that I mentioned in my last post?

Sorry mate truly I am for laughing but end zone?
Yes indeed at the southern end of a roadwork site an end of work zone exists, for south bound traffic.
But for north bound? it is the start of the work site!
However it is evidence of the total failure of authority's to tell us about road works or to even enforce those rules they had a hand in making.
Now no way I could explain how a left of center activist a trade unionist, does not think public owner ship always works.
But the day in my union/worker/ hands on traffic controller roll I walked into the central office of the NSW RTA is pure humor.
20 lost people not one of them ever having worked out side an office intent on buggering up protective laws about road works, they almost did.
Today people such as these are blind to informing the public of the rising death toll at such sites.
Headline news will be made soon after needless death bought on by neglect in those offices.

Belly, there is no need for the end zone in one direction to be of the same length as the lead-in zone in the other direction, is there?

Main Roads departments apparently feel that there is an absolute necessity for the speed limit to be the same in both directions on the same piece of road. Consequently, they make the end zone the same length as the lead-in zone for traffic travelling in the opposite direction. That is; the same stretch of road that is the end zone for traffic going one way and the lead-in zone for traffic travelling in the opposite direction.

But why on earth?

Can you offer any insight as to why Main Roads has this ridiculous policy, which often leads to absurdly long slow zones heading out of roadworks sites, which in turn offends the sensibilities of most drivers, which in turn don’t observe the rules, which in turn are not policed, which in turn makes a complete mockery of the policy of matching the end zone to the lead-in zone on the other side of the same piece of road, which in turn corrodes the rule of law and the authority of Main Roads in a very blatant manner, which in turn reduces the safety for those working at roadworks sites and for the public passing through them, for as long as people can get away with brazenly infringing the law (uhhhh haaaa [deep breath])!!

Ludwig I will try I could have done better in my last post.
Given traffic forms very long lines after being stopped for very short times end zones for south bound traffic are traffic calming lines for north bound.
Both should be the same length.
Why?
At a work site is a constant fear motorists may, do get out of the car and walk around, kids cross the road without guidance , traffic if it begins to move south bound will always does isolate children even adults on the wrong side of the road.
In the middle of the road inches away from traffic doors open eyes closed people must not be confronted with speeding trucks just after the work zones .
Storage areas for waiting traffic, safe zones for waiting traffic that roadway is a dangerous place to return traffic to full speed rushing past stalled traffic would be very dumb.
Another issue not the last cars turn around in waiting traffic , around blind bends over hills to confront a truck at 100 klm in such conditions would kill many as parked cars surely would be involved.
Sorry but no other way exists end of roadworks is for one way the others? the start both end zones are also start zones.
Fact is road authority's have both the best and worst employees and if your dad was Foreman you are likely to be one too skills do not always count.
Public do not understand traffic control nore do some who implement it.

Thanks for that explanation Belly. It certainly makes sense to have a slow zone heading out of roadworks where there is still a hazard factor, such as queued traffic on the other side of the road waiting at a temporary stop sign or traffic light, or where the traffic volume is high enough to cause it to bank up at the roadworks site in question.

But this is only the case in a portion of instances. The majority of the time (at least in my part of the world), there is no queue nor a likelihood of one forming, and yet Main Roads still insist on having a very long slow end zone.

I’ll say again, this is where it gets very dangerous and downright infuriating; where the majority of drivers take no notice of the slow end zone when it is obvious that they have passed the actual roadworks area, and show no tolerance for drivers that continue to stick to the temporary slow speed limit, or even within 20 or 30kmh of it!

I dread this every time I go through a roadworks zone, especially on the open road…. and I’m out there on the Bruce and Flinders Highways and other roads a great deal of the time with my job and my passion for botanical exploration….and there are always roadworks happening on those roads.

Main Roads know of this problem. So surely, in the interests of safety, they must make sure that there are no silly long slow end zones where they don’t have to be.

Ludwig I understand and sometimes agree with you 22 years working in the field [shovel in hand]for the NSW RTA tells me you are partly right.
My unhappiness with my ex employer is not the ill will of a former employee but disappointment that it is the only job I know of that rewards failure with a promotion.
While some of the best thinkers and workers I ever knew work there the worst are likely to be giving them orders.
Insurance , that word describes why every road authority miss uses traffic control plans.
Why loose stones signs are in place for sometimes weeks and those stones are not swept on day two or even late on day one as good practice demands.
If those signs are in place you must really fight to get your broken windscreen replaced most give up.
That longer zone than needed?
Well insurance too end of line smashes happen often, and are a failure of the traffic plan, sometimes the needlessly long zone is laziness.
Seen the red men at work out all night?
no work? yellow yes they can be 24 hour signs but it breaks the law to have flagmen or workmen out without them being on the road.
My thread was to be about failure to educate motorists but failure to implement safe traffic control plans too some true shonks dreadfully unsafe are getting NSW government contracts to do this work based on costs not safety deaths are needless and some who over see these contracts base winners on who puts the most free grog in the back of the Ute.

I certainly agree that there are some blockheads out there, in all aspects of roadworks management.

In 2001 I made of series of detailed written complaints to Main Roads about issues at a number of roadworks sites. I received back a letter saying that I had some valid points. But that was about the end of it. I continue to see just the same sorts of problems. Nothing changed.

I have on a couple of occasions stopped and spoken to workers or foremen about glaring problems with safety / signage, that could very easily be fixed up. But of course, they weren’t interested.

I stopped in at the Broadsound Shire office in St Lawrence one time, after passing through an absolutely stupidly managed hazard zone where the council was mowing the highway roadverge. I spoke to a Mr P. Odorico, who simply wasn’t interested in my concerns about safety or how the situation could have so easily been remedied. He started repeating himself over and over; “we are managing that particular issue according to the legal requirements” end of story, he just completely shut out my concerns about safety. He became quite obnoxious.

I made a complaint to the council in writing about his unacceptable response. The council wrote back fully supporting him.

And so it goes. There is some rank stupidity out there….. mixed in with a lot of very average management…. and occasionally a bit of particularly good management.

Anyway, I’m off out onto the open road on a botanical trip for a week. I’ll let you know of any unsatisfactory roadworks that I encounter.

Cheers (:>)

Hope you enjoyed the trip by the time you come back the thread will be asleep so while I think of it.
Never forget white wash is cheaper than accountability, I have seen 3 deaths yes fair dinkum because of failures in traffic control .
All covered up, first young new flagman leaning on a truck talking to the driver 10 feet from his position, saw road blocked and ran into position.
First car stopped second did not driver of first died there on the road.
twice a government Koala bear, bosses mate totally protected saw deaths as a result of third grade policing of the wrong traffic control plan.
you will not get justice if white wash can be used sorry but contracting our management of government enterprise may be the answer.

Thought I might twist the tail of the thread one more time POT HOLES!
Came to me today while driving in the never ending rain.
Blokes on the road filling the same potholes they filled yesterday in the rain, back tomorrow to do it again why?
Well our highways are built and maintained to a system called the Californian highway construction and maintenance system, yes indeed.
Flexible pavement that is the key , the road flex's and it must or it will shatter, potholes are a sign the road is failing.
The repair must flex or it fails so it is not filled with say concrete it would expand that failure all around the edge.
Hence the little dab will do ya flexible filler.
Not expected to last but if it stop's raining maybe it will, for a week.
We have more roads than most country's but less than 5% of Americas tax dollars thats why we breed more potholes.