Continued;

empowering the community to act against dangerous driving, etc.

There is nothing stopping the public now complaining to the Police about someone's driving. I'm more than happy to take action against someone doing something dangerous if a member of the public tells me, but and this is a very big BUT, as I didn't see the offence I can't do it alone. The member of the public has to be prepared to go to court if need be to prove the offence - and believe me, most can't be bothered. They are more than willing to complain about it and then whinge about me when I say I'm not doing anything about it because I didn't see it and they won't give me a statement and be a witness for it.

I think we've covered the other areas you mention.

It is long overdue that all the states and territories came into line with a single traffic act and when they do it can only be a good thing.

I totally agree with you on the unmarked cars. I've been advocating them for about 20 years now, but again the Politicians want high visibility - both to show that they are doing something and to prove that they are doing something. The fact that it is totally wrong makes no difference (see previous comment). When you ask most people what they want they will say more Police - I want to see them, walking/driving around.

Unfortunately there are very few and getting fewer unmarked cars on the road today. Just look at NSW - not only do we have marked cars, but they are now high visibility coloured cars too. No longer the white with Police all over them, now they are red, yellow, blue etc with Police all over them. They look more like toy cars than Police cars, it is a real joke. The only good argument I've heard for them is in the snow where white blends in too well and this causes a danger of not being seen when they need to be seen.

Ludwig you appear to be a very educated and intelligent man, but you approach things from a theoretical point of view and not a practical one. Theory is good and well and works in an ideal environment, but throw in a few dynamic factors (ie: the real world in which it has to be implemented) and your theory no longer (strictly) stands. In my 24 years I've seen this happen over and over again. People come up with theories and don't think about the practicalities. Yes, I've been called a dinosaur, draconian, set in my ways and all that - standard reply from such people.

There is a danger that someone in my position will be one or all of the above, but I don't think it's the case - but I could be wrong.

I've also found that most people like yourself are well intentioned and sincere, but the fatal floor that they have all ha was the actual hands on experience in the field. I think you said you are a Geologist or similar. You would know that what you learnt when you did your degree was not everything there was to learn about it and that you have probably learnt more and been better able to understand and implement what you learnt by your real world hands on experience. I dare say you might even have found some of what you learnt to not always be true in every case. It is the same on this topic. I wouldn't read a book and be an enthusiast on the topic and then think that I knew more about it than you. I've had to call on all manner of experts whilst doing crash investigation because they had expertise in areas I did not. So while I am a bit jaded by my experience, I also think that I am grounded enough to be able to separate the chaff from the wheat - on this topic at least.

But do keep up with your fight to improve things as it certainly won't do any harm. Good luck with it.

Gday Quiggley. Thanks for responding again.

Readers will have to refer back to your posts to see the full sentences to which I am responding here.

1.

“It is simply….”

It wouldn’t be impossible if we were determined to make all laws practical and develop a policing regime to match.

“This is one…..”

I disagree with targeted campaigns, because they specifically tell us what is NOT being targeted. In these campaigns, EVERY aspect of the rules of the road should be policed. I could say a lot more about this particular point, but not now.

“As for getting…..”

But these laws do affect people sometimes. Most of them are not completely redundant. It is about a lot more than just cleaning up the books.

“As for bring….”

It certainly IS the police who often interpret the law inasmuch as they have great discretionary powers. They certainly do NOT just enforce it.

“Our enforcement of….”

No! It certainly isn't just the result of a court’s interpretation. It’s got everything to do with the police force being too small for the overall task, and priorities and discretionary powers…..and misuse of priorities (ie often concentrating on the easy things) and I think quite serious misuse of discretionary powers in many instances.

2.

“Yep, but how….”

Well, it would certainly help if the police were being seen to be policing laws at face value and not ignoring a whole bunch of laws!

“Don't you think….”

No! There are MANY basic ideas that have been around for aeons that haven’t been implemented. The current moves in the Northern Territory are a shining example of basic good ideas that have been around forever are only just now being implemented.

“You seem to…..”

Most people aren’t really all that good at respecting the law. They will disobey the law if they think they can get away with it. Speed limits are a prime example of this. Only a small minority actually respect the law itself.

3.

“The public would….”

Why do you say this? Our laws aren’t all that restrictive. It’s a matter of us all….

Cont…

….knowing where we stand with the law, and of laws being reformed where necessary. You seem to be having a bet each way here – on one hand you say that the police just enforce the law, while on the other hand you say that its alright for them not to enforce the law if they see fit! It doesn’t add up.

“Then the clincher….”

Exactly! You could easily let someone off because they are a friend, or for any other reason that you see fit. This is precisely the sort of abuse of discretionary powers that I am up in arms about….. and that MUST be reigned in. What about the person who finds themselves on the wrong side of unfair discretion of this sort, AS I HAVE IN THE MOST BRAZEN MANNER when a police officer decided that he was going to protect a friend, no matter what.

How would anyone know you had done it? They wouldn’t. And therein lies a great deal of the problem; a lack of accountability of the police. People wouldn’t know, but they would suspect. And suspicion works powerfully to undermine respect. So surely it is in the police’s best interest, as well as the general community, to have as limited discretionary powers as we can reasonably implement, and to be as accountable as possible.

This is the clincher alright! How DARE police misuse their discretionary powers in this sort of a manner? I mean, the implications are huge. If they can do a friend a favour, with impunity, then they can very strongly discriminate against people in all sorts of ways.

“Police are already….. “

I very nearly called it quits when I read this. I’ve just finishing saying how unaccountable they are, AND SO HAVE YOU Quiggley, with your reference to how easily a police officer could let a friend off.

Don’t you think police morale would be boosted if we (as a society) worked hard to bring the policing regime in line with the law? Laws would be reformed. People would know exactly where they stand with the law….

…. and police (or at least to a much better extent than they do now). Police would be far less often accused of subjective or unfair discretion or of turning a blind eye… or of not turning a blind eye where they easily could have and usually do, etc. Its all very obvious to me that police morale would rise considerably along with this sort of reform.

4.

“The last point….”

I know it is not policed because I travel up and down the Bruce Highway regularly and see chronic tailgating all the time, with police cars just passing merrily on by. Also, police officers have told me that it doesn’t get policed.

The implication in your paragraph is that just because we don’t ever witness the police acting on tailgating and the like doesn’t mean that they don’t do it. Can you tell me categorically that they do police it, ever?

“Again another argument for consistency.”

What?? I’m the one here who is arguing for consistency!!

5.

“I agree they….”

They are not dangerous per se. Exactly! And with the right driver-training, the right laws and a good enforcement regime, they would be pretty damn safe. But they certainly aren’t at the moment.

“There is nothing….”

I have well and truly tested the complaint mechanism with respect to road issues. I made five complaints in about as many years, being only the worst of the worst cases. Four went absolutely nowhere, and one resulted in action being taken against the driver, but only after I put it in writing a week or so after the event. When I went to the nearest police station immediately after the incident, the officer was just simply not interested.

“It is long overdue…..”

Absolutely! Yahoo, big point of agreement!

“I totally agree on unmarked cars…..”

Wonderful!! I think you are the first person to agree on this point in all my debates on this broad subject. It was great to read your views on this.

cont….

Quiggley, after 30 years driving experience and about 15 years communicating with police, RACQ, etc, and writing on this subject, I think I have a very realistic view of what is needed AND what is practical to implement.

I do find it very strange that, despite your numerous criticisms of aspects of the overall road safety and law / law-enforcement, you seem to think that there is little chance of improvement or that the current regime is basically ok.

For example, your sentiments regarding unmarked cars seem to be in strong contrast with this view.

I’m sure we agree that a huge move forward could be made if we simply put police in unmarked cars, and perhaps on our streets in plain clothes as well. And I think a whole series of steps, which would be just as easy to implement, could vastly improve the whole deal.

There’s nothing naïve or idealistic about my whole perspective on this issue. It is all eminently implementable. All we need to do is convince the pollies. And in Queensland there have been really good signs this year that the pollies are interested and are working on some of the reforms that I have been suggesting for years.

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It has been a very interesting discussion, and I thank you greatly for it.

cheers