So whats in a cult?
How do you understand what is a cult?
Us committed christians know many cults.
The Masons...would you consider them a cult of dark men with many secrets?
The JW's and the Mormons have both altered the King James version of the Holy Bible (i.e. the book of Mormon and the New World Translations) adding what they pleased and taking out what they pleased.
And that despite the warning at the end of Revelation not to alter anything in that book...christians taking it to be anything in ALL of The Great Book, Old or New Testament.
Who is a cult to you? Why so?
What do we teach the children about cults ...getting tangled up in sites or with groups that obsess the spirit.
How do we warn the children about selling out the norm of home life to a cult?
Are there now so many cults that we no longer recognise a cult.
Who wants your children?
A priest once said "if we get them for the first seven years, we've got them for life".
How many groups or corps have that attitude toward the children?

Cults have nothing to do with WHAT you teach, but rather with HOW you teach.

If you observe that members are pressured not to access teachings and resources outside what they receive within their group, then you should suspect the group to be a cult.

Gibo: "the warning at the end of Revelation not to alter anything in that book.."

God needs to claim copyright? Poor bugger must be doing it tough.

"What do we teach the children about cults ...getting tangled up in sites or with groups that obsess the spirit. "

Both my children are atheist, so no worries here, thanks for asking. I've made sure they realise religion is nothing but a con designed to maintain control (and funding) for a few at the expense of the many.

Dear Yuyutsu..

A cult is defined by both what and how it teaches.

Generally, there is a major consensus which is termed 'orthodox' then, deviations from that are called 'cults'... but there's more to it.

Usually, a 'cult' will be characterized by some feature(s) which differ seriously from the message of the foundation documents of orthodoxy.
Generally, to identify a cult, one should look for the following.

1/ Power.. who controls it.
2/ Money.. who has it.
3/ Sex.. does the founder take advantage of the above to expand, enhance, enjoy this as 'part of the package'

Having a theological basis for your cult which advances any of the above interests is usually a sure sign that one's motives come from 'the flesh' rather than 'the Spirit'.

UNORTHODOX THEOLOGY. In line with the above objectives, you can look at the many many early heresies around the early Church. The list is rather long.
Mormons, for example believe:
1/ Satan and Jesus were brothers.
2/ Plurality of gods. Elohim, of the Bible, was once a man like us but was exhalted to godhood by other gods.

Not unsurprisingly, Joseph Smith had many wives and much personal power.

A 'cult' will take one section of scripture and then run with that to the exclusion of others which give the full picture. Or,they will invent 'new' scriptures to support the founders personal goals in life.

Islam is a cult. All the characteristics in the list are present in Mohammad and he invented new scriptures to fit his goals.

-The world belongs to Allah AND He(Mohammad) himself.
-He (alone) can have as many wives as offer themselves to him.
-He was to receive 1/5 of all war booty.
-Taking of war booty is authorized.
-War booty includes human beings where the females are available as sex slaves for the whim of the master.
-Arabic language is the only language God speaks.

Jehovah's witnesses are a cult. They believe that a person must 'earn' their way to heaven by good works. (Hence the work so hard door 2 door)

Boazy: "Islam is a cult"

Yeah right Boazy. And your Brethren isn't, no doubt?

With all this talk of UFOs and the end of days, I am considering joining the Scientologists. They seem to know a lot more about UFOs and all that and as Tom Cruise says, "These are the times now people. OK?" and "These are the times we will all remember. Were you there? What did you do?". They also oppose psychiatry and psychology, which seems to be a big plus!

It's either that or join a UFO mystic exorcism group that battles demons and believes in prophesies that China is going to invade any day now. Those guys seem pretty on the ball to me.

But seriously, be careful about joining the Mormoms, they're a cult- and they don't even believe in UFOs!

The Brethren to my knowledge are Bible-based. They were the only church in the QLD country town I lived in that could be found preaching on the post office corner each week, year after year. That says something fro grit and courage.
Its a shame you poisoned your kids with that rubbish Antiseptic.
Not too late to change. May The Lord Help you.

Gibo, with all due respect, if the posters here were to vote in the category:

"Most likely to be in the grip if a destructive cult"

I'm confident you'd win by a wide margin. It's somewhat ironic that you're the one raising views about the dangers of fringe views, when you subscribe to a book about UFOs that has been discredited, together with a tenuous version of Christianity that relies on prophecy and the existence of demons.

Ironically, advice from a cult member would be quite valuable, if only they could see that they are indeed in the grip of cult-like beliefs, but I suppose if they could see that, they wouldn't be in the cult any more. A bit of a catch 22.

You also back away from discussion when your view of reality is challenged - a fellow Christian, Philo, challenged you to describe one verifiable instance of a corporeal demon that didn't exist in someone's head.

You said you can't speak to him on the matter anymore.

Don't you see that is the hallmark of a cult? The unwillingess to engage when people challenge your view?

If your belief system had some kind of centralised controlling organisation and a mode of payment, it would tick every single box in the cult classification.

Boaz,

You brought up good points:
money and/or power and/or sex, with teachings that promote the leader(s) getting them easily, are good indications for a cult.

Regarding the contents of the doctrine, however, I do not see a distinction between orthodoxy and unorthodoxy, except that unorthodox cults are more likely to deny their followers access to the prevalent and influential orthodox views, while orthodox cults have less to fear from the influence of minority unorthodox views.

It makes no difference Whether a group teaches boogooboogoo or gooboogooboo - these are just words, not reality: instead, we need to look at how the members and their leaders behave in actual life.

Some people on the outside may perhaps even agree that boogooboogoo (or gooboogooboo) is correct, or have a healthy argument among them about which of these is the true statement, but cult members live in another context and for them the doctrine is harmful regardless whether or not it has a "truth value".

I think that if I came upon a group of more than two or three people who believed in UFOs, demons and outlandish apocalyptic prophecies, then I'd regard them as a cult.

I'm sure just about anybody else I know would too.

According to my dictionary, a cult is a religious group whith its
own special rituals, especially one which is seen as dangerous or
harmful by other people.

Based on that definition, both Gibo and BD would be cult members :)

.

Don't you love it, "derivations from the norm".

Gibo, one man's cult is another man's answer.

I've formed my so far group of one which I call the Scientific Animist Sect( bit sniffy myself about cults}. We believe that each of us animates our days- Have a nice day, no thanks I've got other plans.

We accept JC's teaching that we should love our neighbor but only admire her ass.

We at SAS acknowledge the demonic qualities of others- whether it be in their gardening, their art or in their destructive actions. SAS stands for pregnant ladies on the bus, number ones and the national anthem at the Bledisloe.

Did you never stop to think that only those who don't trust themselves to do the right thing rely on RULES, whatever orthodoxy or apparent deviancy(?) they subscribe to?

Hi Yuyutsu

well.. I think 'orthodoxy' can vary in minor things.. for example in Baptism.

All Orthodox/mainstream denominations believe that when person comes to Christ, they should be baptize as this is a very scriptural issue.

Where they sometimes differ is the mode of baptism. Some 'sprinkle'..others 'immerse'.. some 'baptize children' then 'confirm' later. But none of them would say that Baptism saves a person.. for example. The Church of Christ comes closest to this, and is regarded as a cult by some evangelicals.

YABBY.. lucky u gave that smiley I was about to get the thought police and hunt ya down :)

Gibo: "They were the only church in the QLD country town I lived in that could be found preaching on the post office corner each week, year after year. That says something fro grit and courage."

Or possibly something about obsession and disconnection from reality, not to mention a lack of consideration for others who had to put up with their droning.

"Its a shame you poisoned your kids with that rubbish Antiseptic.
Not too late to change. May The Lord Help you."

Off you go and pay the Pastor, then. I'm sure he could do with the money...

Boaz,

You are correct in that orthodoxy can have slight variations, but I don't see how it fits in this issue about cults.

Cults can be orthodox or otherwise. For example, suppose some charismatic person in a remote part of China gathers around him followers who look at him with bleary eyes. He brings them a bible, which they never saw before, claims that it is not only sacred, but also a very secret book and what he teaches them is exactly what you believe as a Christian, including the last fine detail about baptism and confirmation, eucharist and confession, but he simply does not tell them that such a belief exists anywhere else in the world - on the contrary, he tells them never to venture out of their village or open the radio because everything outside is controlled by Satan. He makes his followers work hard for him 18 hours a day, they consider him a saint and constantly adore and adorn him, they even believe that having sex with a saint is different than having "ordinary" sex and brings with it salvation rather than sin, so he is "married" to all the women in the group.

You get it... the words do not matter, it is not what one professes that matters, but how one actually lives!

TRTL.
Philo never challenged me.
He spoke against what the Bible said.
The Word is the reference because "all scripture is inspired by God" to its writers.
Philo, to all appearences, is certainly no born again christian.
He came across as RC or some other cult.

Antiseptic.
You join a long line of writers here who have no knowledge of the christian churches whatsoever.
Sure we will pay the pastor and put our tithes into the running of the churches we fellowship in. The more we put in, the further Christs message goes.
Most pastors I know do other jobs other than take out of the churches funds.
Its only a few of the bigger church pastors who get wages.

Dear Yuyutsu

your last point about the leader in a remote area has certainly been done by some.. David Koresh of Waco infame comes to mind.

I was going to say that this approach comes unhinged when the people who can also read the Bible, would recognize the errent behavior of their leader....but sadly.. even tragically, many people will simply accept the passionate and charismatically delivered 'special insights' that their leader brings to the Bible itself.

Henceforth, they don't see the plain meaning but re-interpret that through the lenze of 'his public statements/teaching' on the matter.

It doesn't change the 'cult' nature of the group, but it won't appear as a cult to those mezmerized by the leader inside the cult itself.

The most pernicious element in all this, is that these 'leaders' don't usually come up with their evil teaching at the beginning. They come across as passionate and sincere people who are driven the the selfless conviction of bringing truth to others.. which is why they gather a following I assume.

It gets even weirder when a cult splits into a sub cult :) and the original mob consider themselves 'orthodox' and the offshoot a'heresy/cult'.

Its at times like those when I just retreat to my Angofera Costata and Eucalpytus Citriadora filled garden and contemplate the greatness of the Almighty :)... I love the lemon scent from the Citriadora.

No Gibo, he did challenge you.

You just chose to say he is wrong, so you had an excuse to ignore the question.

Again - where's the proof of demons? Philo's pointed out that all the demons in the bible could just as easily have been psychological 'demons' as it were.

What's more, there's no evidence in reality or anywhere that demons exist.

But you don't want to accept that. So you'll take recourse in some obscure section of text to justify your position.

While most of you babble along with this subject, your freedoms are taken away very slowly but surely, as (this subject and others)it is another way to keep your mind distracted from the real issues of survival, right down to your cellular levels.Instead of believing in life itself and just look around you what is being done to other life forms by companies and their scientists.
b.t.w. it's easier to control people when you hurd them into groups when each member takes on an identity as "I am a cristian", etc.
If you were to connect all the dots spelled out in this forum's titles, you'd have to conclude that there is no interest in survival or survival of life itself. Take for example 'nano tech','the demise of bees', 'GM introduction', just to name a few.
We could be discussing instead: who controls the food, water, air, is in power of the masses.You think?

eftfnc, if that's your concern, then by all means, start a thread.

The problem is, your comment there, invariably dismisses any discussion that isn't about that particular topic as worthless.

Evidently you see some conspiratorial thread running through the topics you just mentioned, but I see them as quite separate issues or a fairly broad topic of globalisation and capitalism, which do get quite extensive discussion on these boards.

Boazy: "It gets even weirder when a cult splits into a sub cult"

You mean like when the Exclusive Brethren broke away from the Open Brethren, for instance?

TRTL

I would of thought your out and out misrepresentation of Christian groups in the thread you started recently might have embarassed you into silence. Since you don't believe in God it is interesting that you try to highlight peoples different theological views.

It wasn't a misrepresentation at all runner, not even the slightest bit.

You saying it is, doesn't make it so.

I highlighted several groups that are being attacked by the media. I made no judgement on the accuracy of these claims, though I think it's most likely that these groups are indeed as shonky as is being claimed.

I then put it to Christians, as to whether they would condemn these movements instantaneously - as is asked of Muslims whenever a fringe group pops up.

You just don't get it. It was an attempt to see if fundamentalist christians would be able to understand what it's like to be treated in this manner.

Evidently you don't like being in that position. Surprise surprise, I doubt the muslim populace likes it either.

I didn't attempt to claim that muslims groups weren't more dangerous, nor did I attempt to claim that all christians were like these groups.

I was testing the waters and seeing if people are willing to open their minds and put themselves in other people's shoes.

But your posts reveal you to be quite bad at that.

Your constant attacks on abortions and homosexuality reveal how little credence you give to any view that doesn't subscribe to the Catholic interpretation.

I'd say you should be embarrassed for making such a one-sided sniping post, especially seeing as you haven't actually tackled anything I've said with any depth or understanding.

TRTL said:

<<You just don't get it. It was an attempt to see if fundamentalist christians would be able to understand what it's like to be treated in this manner.>>

Ohhhh my.. mate .. we SOOOOoooo 'get' it... its you who does not.

Ever since we were thrown to wild beasts, stoned, ridiculed, mocked, slandered, and on a daily basis trivialized by movies which include the phrases such as "Jesus f____ng Christ"..and by workmates who use similar terms.. and by other movies which pretty much only show Christians as wierdo's, whacko's, serial killers, tyrants, abusive fathers etttttcetera.. err yes. we really do get it.

The difference is.....the issues we raise are rather more tangible regading Islam and its outworking in society.

-Taxi drivers DO in reality refuse carriage to blind and alchohol carrying would be passengers.
-People 'are' denied their normal food and discriminated against.
-Bombs 'do' go off in the name of Islam.
-and the list goes on....as you have heard till ur sick of it.

It isn't that we don't get the problem... its that the problem is different.

*The difference is.....the issues we raise are rather more tangible regading Islam and its outworking in society.*

You of course forget Boazy, that the Christian (Catholic) Church,
not so long ago, used to have heretics like myself and others,
burnt at the stake! It was only the rise of the secular movement
that forced the Christians to their present position of being
forced to accept tolerance, not because of their good hearts.

Christians at their worst are as bad as Muslims at their worst,
as history shows. That is why we need secular Govt and religion
as a lifestyle choice and no more.

TRTL

You are wrong again. You write 'Your constant attacks on abortions and homosexuality reveal how little credence you give to any view that doesn't subscribe to the Catholic interpretation.'

I consider myself a Christian( denomination unimportant) not a Roman Catholic.

Your 'testing the waters and seeing if people are willing to open their minds and put themselves in other people's shoes.' is equal to me saying all humanist are paedophiles. You totally misrepresented two groups of people putting them in the same category as
terrorist. This was deceitful and dishonest. I have no problem with any Christian organisation coming under scrutiny. What I object to is you or others misreporting and misrepresenting the truth especially when a number of people have given freely of their time and resources to help those caught in habitual problems that are in the process of destroying their lives.

You are also wrong to call my opinion 'attacks' when it comes to abortion and homosexuality. You seem blinded to the fact that these two wrongs are constantly promoted in the press and in articles published on OLO. Do you have problems with those with opposing views to yourself though I admit my opinions are in the minority. I have family members who have had abortions and who have lived the 'gay' lifestyle. I still care for them dearly but do not condone their actions. I pray they like yourself find forgiveness in Christ.

Is it my imagination Boaz, or are you becoming increasingly shrill as the months and years go past?

>>Ever since we were thrown to wild beasts, stoned, ridiculed, mocked, slandered, and on a daily basis trivialized by movies which include the phrases such as "Jesus f____ng Christ"..and by workmates who use similar terms.. and by other movies which pretty much only show Christians as wierdo's, whacko's, serial killers, tyrants, abusive fathers etttttcetera.. err yes. we really do get it.<<

From anyone who doesn't know you, this might sound a little paranoid.

Do you for one moment believe that yours is the only group who has ever been treated this way?

Incidentally, which Christian group do you represent here? Crusaders? Witch-duckers? The Spanish Inquisition?

And furthermore, why do you think that suffering (most of them by proxy, of course) all these humiliations gives you leave to inflict the same on another group of people?

You have been leading the chorus for a very long time, stirring up hatred and fear. These are simply your own analogue of being "thrown to wild beasts, stoned, ridiculed, mocked, slandered, and on a daily basis trivialized".

It all seems a little contrived sometimes, almost as if you are simply going through the motions. Which would possibly explain the increasingly desperate language you employ.

Isn't it time to retire, and do us both a favour?

Now I'm worried, I've been involved with both the open bretho's and the Church of Christ in the past (both listed here as potential cults). Come to think of it I did come across the cosmic quackery stuff in the bretho's that was more by way of the younger group I was part of rather than via teaching from the churches leaders.

The bretho's did tend to be suspicious of believers outside their group (to varying degree's) but my impression is cults are fairly hard to leave which was no problem with them. Friendships (but not to close) with people outside the church were encouraged.

Some were extreme and with no sense of respect for others, I remember a couple from a congregation which I lived near (but did not attend) with a habit of setting a portable PA up outside suburban houses on a saturday night and preaching to the people in the houses. Most bretho's I knew were appauled by that kind of behaviour.

The more open of the bretho's were theologically not all that different to Church of Christ, Baptists etc excpet for the head covering thing and the lack of paid ministers.

Church of Christ could swap signs with most baptist churches and nobody would spot the difference. Some congregations may be different but most were in my experience far to open to be cults.

I've tried to find out in the past if the stuff Gibo cherishes is from his church or a smaller group he hangs around with. Possibly a mixture. Certainly cult like signs but then he is allowed to mix it on OLO and a cult probably would not like that much.

I did once work with a Coonieite (not sure of the spelling). Now they have some very cult like characteristics (although I don't recall any flying saucers).

R0bert

R0bert reminds me that, while our most vocal Brethren tubthumper asserts that the world religion of Islam is a cult (but presumably his Brethren aren't), they share the characteristic of preferring their women to wear hijabs.

Of course there's many other things they share, like the much of the Old Testament, for example.

YABBY...

"You of course forget Boazy, that the Christian (Catholic) Church,
not so long ago, used to have heretics like myself and others,
burnt at the stake!"

Noooo Yabs.. I don't 4get it 4 a minute! but what you 4get is that such things were entirely 'human' and absolutely and identifiably NOT how Jesus lived or taught, so.. go figure mate... if.. and its a big 'if'.. you could say "Oh and look.. they are just following what Jesus did, what he taught...." I might have some serious concerns, some self doubt..but ya caynt :) and this alone should touch your heart that no matter how bad people are, there is 'ONE' who was different, and He is the Son of God.
Jesus did express a harsh sentiment once.. and 'shudder cringe, shock horror'..it was this "If they do not receive you, shake the dust of your feet and move along to another town" wooooo now that is reallly harsh....you reject some religious nutter and he shakes dust off his feet.. now that must hurt.

Peril... do you have tunnel vision? I was responding to TRTL who felt we don't have a clue about 'what it's like' to be ridiculed, offended, mistreated, maligned or persecuted.... read the Barnabus report Pericles to see what is happening NOW.. today to Christians in many places.. there is nothing 'shrill' about it, but you never miss a 'bash a christian' opportunity do you..

ROBERT... you might be suprised to hear this, but I think your post was most balanced and accurate. I've seen one of those 'portable PA blokes' too.. at the high rise in Fitzroy.. freaked me out.

CJ.. 'hijabs' ? Well.. maybe 1 out of 50 in our group cover the head, but in our case its a symbol of peace...not war.

No point in protesting, Boaz. You are clearly becoming increasingly desperate in your search for sticks with which to beat up Muslims.

>>CJ.. 'hijabs' ? Well.. maybe 1 out of 50 in our group cover the head, but in our case its a symbol of peace...not war.<<

The hijab, a symbol of war, Boaz? That is not simply an exaggeration, it is an outright fabrication, a figment of your increasingly fevered imagination. The hijab is a symbol of personal modesty and respect, nothing more.

This is also beyond reality:

>>read the Barnabus report Pericles to see what is happening NOW.. today to Christians in many places.. there is nothing 'shrill' about it, but you never miss a 'bash a christian' opportunity do you..<<

But Boaz, as you very well know by now, this is not about Christianity. I have many friends who are perfectly well-behaved and well-mannered, and who are also Christians.

I am also well aware that a great many people derive a great deal of comfort from the idea that they are being watched over by some form of higher power, and many of these are Christians also. I neither begrudge them their comfort nor wish to join them.

However, your posts have been a constant source of concern to me, as you consistently and persistently denigrate the religion of other people, purely and simply to stir up animosity and fear.

It is also clear that you consider yourself separate from the mainstream of Christianity, since each time the misdemeanours of past Christians is brought to your attention, you quickly disown them. Ipso facto, any criticism of the tone and content of your whack-a-mozzie rants can have nothing to do with Christianity itself, can it?

Once again, in case you still wish to misunderstand: it's not about Christianity, it's about using it as a banner to beat up on others.

Just like those Crusades, in fact.

runner - I'll concede the point in relation to your catholicism or otherwise - touche. I'll also concede that often opposing views get trampled. Fair enough.

But that's about it. And your insinuation that I should be embarrassed made me quite furious.

You keep stating that I've been proven wrong in that thread.

I've yet to see the proof.

What bothers me and why I brought up the abortion comments you make, is that there's never any explanation or attempt at real backing.

Just one mighty serving of judgement and denigration. Whenever an abortion thread pops up, I know you can be relied upon to pop in, make some remark about it being murder, genocide, baby killing, etc, without the slightest nod of acknowledgement to the fact that other people might not consider a fetus that doesn't yet have a brain, eyes, limbs or the ability to think or see, a human being.

Despite this being pointed out and the disagreement noted, we can still be sure that on the next abortion thread, nothing will have changed.

We can also rely on you just to pop in and say secular humanists are responsible for the ills of society. It's a shallow, insulting dig at people you disagree with.

Also very insulting to secular humanists. Clearly however, when presented with examples of Christianity gone awry, you don't like it one bit.

Similarly, in that thread I put forward on Christian fringe groups, you say that you're fine with judgement being cast on Christian groups, but you've put forward nothing persuasive that leads me to believe any of those fringe groups aren't destructive.

You made some claims, but in contrast to at least the article links I put forward, you've put forward nothing to back them, then have the hide to insinuate I should be keeping my head down for embarrassment. It came across as incredibly arrogant, given that I've seen no persuasive evidence to the contrary of what I've claimed and I'm certainly not the least bit embarrassed.

TRTL, I wouldn't let runner's boofheaded version of Christian ignorance get to me. As you say, all this guy ever does is stick his beak in with some lame comment like 'earth worshippers are violent', 'secular humanism is evil', 'evolution is stupid' or some other such nonsense, and rarely backs any of it up with anything that resembles argument or evidence.

As one of OLO's most obdurate Christian boofheads, I generally ignore him - but you're right, he can be annoying and insulting to the vast majority of us who don't share his very skewed view of the world.

Fortunately, he no more resembles the majority of Christians with whom I interact daily, than do Boazy, Philo, Gibo etc.

TRTL.
Like many other christians Ive seen evil spirits. Been attacked by them...smothered and bitten.
Its life experience I was talking about which seemed to escape Philo...and you.
Philo is into theory based on "I sometimes imagine things which I subsequently believe to be true".
A lot of that goes on here.

I'm sorry Gibo, but that had me laughing with such amusement.

You really can't see it can you.

When you say: "Philo is into theory based on "I sometimes imagine things which I subsequently believe to be true".
A lot of that goes on here."

Ha!

Yes, a lot of that does go on here, and Gibo, you're the main culprit.

Doesn't it strike you as a little odd that only a tiny handful of people in Australia share your belief in demons, and most of them are regarded as a little loopy by the public?

Isn't it possible when you speak of demons, that you "imagined things which you subsequently believed to be true"?

Or, put more simply, which is more likely - everybody else is wrong, or it's just you?

Its not a tiny handful sonny.
Thousands of ministers, pastors, elders, people moving in the Gifts of The Holy Spirit. Black fellows, white fellows, asian fellows. Male and female, teenagers. You name it ...thousands all across this great land doing battle against satans hordes in the spirit world.
And then theres you sheltered little lot....hmmmmm!
"MacDonalds children" sheltered and cushioned from the truths of life.

Thanks for the chuckle, Gibo. At least you're always good for a laugh.

Come on, admit it now - you're really a stoned uni student winding us up... aren't you?

I have been reading this thread, thinking of posting then deciding not to bother, it is too far out-there-with-the-pixies to bother about but I am intrigued by the expression "MacDonalds children" however, first:

Gibo “Like many other christians Ive seen evil spirits. Been attacked by them...smothered and bitten.”

Sounds positively kinky

But then, self flagellation is the regular Friday entertainment in opus dei.


Regarding “"MacDonalds children" sheltered and cushioned from the truths of life.”

Are they the ones who live in McMansions?

It is a strange place where some folk take it upon themselves to invent clichés to how they view the way other folk bring up their kids.

I doubt any child who is the victim of a cult will be exposed to the truth of anything, life included and when I read some of the views expressed by the more “religious” minded of our posting brethren, I become more convinced that all organized religious faiths and denominations represent aspects of “cult”, which I have never observed in a McDonalds, even when Macca’s deploy the most intense advertising and marketing techniques.

I find MdDonalds is less motivated to want to control my values and beliefs than say the Church of Rome or any of the other denominations who claim, fraudulently, to be the sole interlocutor between man and God.

So I guess, if I have to choose, you will find me prostrating myself before a Big Mac before you will find me at the high alter at St Pats and safe in the knowledge, I am less likely to be “burgered” from behind at Maccas.

CJ. Actually I was blessed not to go to Uni.
My son was stunned by the dribble the lecturers went on especially in the Charlie Darwin/evolution area. Creating theory then believing it to be true.

Listen guys,

Previously I could not sleep at night because I was so awefully bothered with the question of how many angels can sit on the tip of a needle.

But now after reading this thread I can finally rest, for I have confidentently and positively resolved that their number is a function of what stuff this needle injects.

Thank you all, I am off...

Just one more thing, Boaz.

You know how I love to follow up your references, don't you?

Here's one that I couldn't find...

>>.. read the Barnabus report Pericles to see what is happening NOW.. today to Christians in many places.. there is nothing 'shrill' about it<<

Barnabus report, Boaz?

Directions,please. Where do I find this report?

CJ, beware the dangling modifier...

>>As one of OLO's most obdurate Christian boofheads, I generally ignore him...<<

Shurely not?

A cult is a loosley organised religious movement that is independent of the religious tradition of the surrounding society.

Unlike the sect, which attempts to revive or reinterpret older doctrines, the cult emphasizes the new, drawing symbols and rituals from beyond the religious mainstream.

The cult tends to be the most temporary of all forms of religious organisation. It usually has few coherent doctrines and imposes minimal demands on believers: like the denomination but unlike the sect, it is open to almost anyone who wishes to participate. The members tend to have relatively low commitment to the organisation, and people drift in and out of the group.

Cults are often centred on specific prophets or other leaders and generally lack trained officials. They appeal to people who, disenchanted with traditional religion, participate for the personal benefits or experiences the cult offers them.

Contemporary cults currently include such loosely structured groups as, spiritualists, believers in astrology, or transcendental meditation.

cont'd

The Methodists, started out as a spontaneous, unrestrained sect
of the poor, but today they are amongst the most affluent and respectable of the Protestant denominations. Similarly, the Mormons were once an oppressed sect, persecuted in state after state in the US until they settled in the area that became Utah. But as the Mormons became more prosperous and successful, they abandoned some earlier fundamentalist teachings (notably that permitting polygamy, which they gave up in order to gain statehood for Utah).

The Seventh-Day Adventists, too began as a sect prophesying the end of the world on a specific date. That day having come and gone, they have developed from a sect into a denomination with an increasingly middle-class membership and a trained clergy.

Pericles: "beware the dangling modifier..."

Ha! Would you believe that I actually considered it, then thought that nobody could possibly mistake me for a Christian? ;)

Very droll nonetheless.

thank you Gibo- your confronting of your demons has surely saved the public purse....smothered and bitten? you are one brave hombre.

Yours is a world that has much in common with animistic beliefs. From central Oz to Africa and beyond, witch doctors and Ngangkari are doing such work.

Keep it up.

My world Palimpsest is only an average christian world.
Its pentecostal and will speak about evil spirit powers.
We dont run from them.
We dont go looking for contact with demons either as do witchdoctors. Openning those doors is evil and maximum dumb.
Parents with kids watch what your children do with Harry Potters witchcraft...its so dangerous.
Sometimes evil spirits come to us to frighten us away from some event or other. I happened to be a christian writer so they targeted me from time to time.
I wasnt deterred just strengthened in my faith in The Lord.

Errr. Boaz, are you there?

>>.. read the Barnabus report Pericles to see what is happening NOW.. today to Christians in many places.. there is nothing 'shrill' about it<<

Barnabus report, Boaz?

Directions,please. Where do I find this report?

Gibo,

I don't know what to make of your experiences but I admire your strength in the face of the cruel taunts. God bless you.

Foxy,

Isn't the term used in two different ways? One comes closest to your definition. The other is a very small group led by some fat ugly man (usually with a beard) who starts it to get a sex life. The latter are extremely insular and cut members off from as much interaction with the outside world as possible and engage in heavy persuasion.

Is the lack of persecution of Mormons due to their beliefs or a general shift to a lack of persecution of sects in America? The polygamy thing obviously needed to be dropped for legal reasons but beyond that they are still quite distinctive.

"The Seventh-Day Adventists, too began as a sect prophesying the end of the world on a specific date. That day having come and gone, they have developed from a sect into a denomination with an increasingly middle-class membership and a trained clergy."

So they have definitely achieved denominational recognition? I have spoken to a few people who consider them mainstream Christians yet consider Mormons and JWs to be sects. I wonder if the mormons and jehovah's witnesses are on their way to acceptance.

The Seventh-Day Adventists started off with the prophesy you referred to then got re-invigorated when a new leader claimed to visit heaven and be told that Christian Sabbath should go back to Saturday. To this day they stick to the Saturday thing thus making them quite distinctive. I believe they also observe Jewish dietary rules. The leader getting a divine revelation from heaven seems awfully similar to Joseph Smith's angel and tablet thing.

They seem to be getting a better deal than others. Perhaps its because they are sooo nice. Everyone I know who has worked for or been friends with one always comments on how nice they are.

Anybody?

>>.. read the Barnabus report Pericles to see what is happening NOW.. today to Christians in many places.. there is nothing 'shrill' about it<<

Anybody heard of the Barnabus report?

The suspense is killing.