Recently the Federal Guvmint anounced plans to cull 500 on a defence property in Canberra. Inevitably there were protests, most vocally, or famously rather, is VIVA!, in the UK with Paul Macartney being a spokesman.

Due to Japan being the target of Australia's outstanding criticism of their whaling program they jumped up and shouted HYPOCRITES!. Also, inevitably, debate began over whether Japan had a point.

In my opinion Japan DOES have a point if your criticism of whaling is based totally on sentimentality. They have a point if you ignore the vast differences in evironmental impact of both species. They have a point if you ignore the blatant dishonesty in their reasoning behind their whaling program.

Unchecked, Roo's becoem as much of a problem as a rat plague would. Unchecked, Whales would be an animal of beauty everyone could see. Unchecked, Japan would turn OUR ocean into something resembling THEIR ocean. Go to Japan, buy a rod, and try catching a fish off a harbour.

The criticism of Japan is based on sentimentality, with a bit of racism thrown in for broader appeal. We should eat both whales and kangaroos.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/sustainability-party/why-allow-whaling.html

YA might need to explain to me where the racism comes into it.

Here's Greenpeace's take on it. Plenty 'o' facts and figures to go round. Didn't see much the same at 'ozpolitic'. Only (apparently) ones opinion.

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/oceans/whaling

Some key differences:

I think McCartney and the folks at Viva are idiots.

Aside from the fact that they could picket crueller practices such as live exports, or alternatively focus on some of the many, many endangered species, their goals would result in animal cruelty.

Australia has a drought cycle that essentially means roo populations explode then recede. It means that in harsh times, many just die and starve to death. Alternatively, we shoot a few. Whilst some people view the killing as cruel, I'd say compared to starvation it's pretty damn kind.

Why these 500 roos get attention when millions are culled each year is strange. Observe here for more: http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/nature_conservation/wildlife/native_animals/permits_and_licences/kangaroo_harvesting/

Even the RSPCA has supported some roo culls.

On the whale issue, I sum it up with one word: endangered.

I'm not on about sentimentality, or their majesty. I'll eat cute or majestic animals. Lamb tastes great.

Endangered animals however, is another story.

There's your difference.

I was a professional hunter (culling and eradication) in a 'past life'. So my view on this topic FAR from sentimental. I understand the need, and the difference. I've seen it for myself.

Without actually having looked at the actual government release behind the cull. More than likely they didn't release anything. I am confused why 500 roos got this attention.

I don't believe they're being shot.

I believe also that <20% of the total (est) 20,000,000 population is culled yearly. Somewhere in the vicinity or 3.5 - 5 million.

Endangered is indeed the word. The Eastern Grey kangaroo is by no means endangered. I live in the bush, and I know people who shoot them perfectly legally for pet food to supplement their incomes. I go bush frequently to go fishing and there's heaps out there, particularly since the recent good rain. They frequently pass through our house paddock, in mobs.

The difference in this case is their proximity to suburban Canberra.

With respect to killing whales for food, endangered is still the word. If, for example, it can be reliably shown that there are sustainable numbers of Minke whales or dolphins out there, then there's no logical reason not to harvest some of them. After all, we do that to cows and fish. They're all sentient animals, but that's what people have always done.

However, I understand that many if not most Cetacean species are considered to be endangered, and they of course should be protected.

CJ I'm pretty sure the Minke's are nowhere near endangered. That Japs are taking about 1000 every year. No idea what the maximum sustainable yield would be, but it would be something worthwhile.

StG, the racism comes in because Greenpeace does not target animals that 'good clean white folk' torture and kill. They are not encessarily promoting racism, but they are taking advantage of it. If it was Tasmanians rather than Japs killing the whales, don't you think we'd all be a bit more open minded about it?

"If it was Tasmanians rather than Japs killing the whales, don't you think we'd all be a bit more open minded about it?"

No.

Please. Racism. Sigh.

"...Greenpeace does not target animals that 'good clean white folk' torture and kill."

That's just plain old unresearched wrong. Any more wrong and it would be in the dictionary as an example of 'wrong'.

Just to save you the effort of disagreeing.

Google, "harp seal hunt canada greenpeace".

Blah.

The harp seal thing is not evidence that Greenpeace is not taking advantage of racism. There are plenty of local issues committed by white people. Greenpeace doesn't shove it in our face like they do with whaling because we feel more comfortable condemning the Japs. They also don't shove the harp seal issue in our face.

I think it's funny we are upset at the Japs because they say it's for scientific research. The Norwegians just refused to sign the treaty 'cause they said they just want to eat whales.

I think Australians rather someone tell us to piss off up front, rather than pretend to agree and just do what they want anyway. Or maybe we just hate slanty eyed people...

Hey I just read there are 500,000 minke whales and the Japanese only killed 1000 of them last year. Plus we were killing whales at the same rate in the 60s. Also the Blue whale is endangered, and the minke whale is a competitor for the same foods as the Blue whale

Make up your mind Freediver.

You said;

"...Greenpeace does not target animals that 'good clean white folk' torture and kill."

Now you're saying;

"There are plenty of local issues committed by white people."

To coin a phrase from Rove Mcmanus...."what the?"

It's not Greenpeace that shoves the issue of whaling and not the issue seals "in your face". It's the media. I talked to a young chick at a Greenpeace 'beg for funds stand' at the shopping centre recently. Whales were on the list of topics, so was global warming, DU, GE food, ECO-forestry, Seals, global peace, deep sea destruction etc etc etc

OK if you want to be pedantic about it I'll rephrase for you:

Greenpeace does not target animals that 'good clean white Australians' torture and kill.

Happy now?

Of course, sealing is a big money spinner in the US because it finally gives them some moral issue they can feel superior to the canucks on.

Greenpeace is cutting back on the whaling issue because they have been called out on it in the mainstream press. They picked up on the change in the air and jumped off just as the government decided to jump on the bandwagon. In years past when people didn't question why whaling was so bad (it's the Japs of course...) I would often see greenpeace fundraisers on a busy footpath with a big whale picture, a money box and a cute girl with something no-one actually reads printed across her chest asking for money to fight the Japs.

Er, I mean save the whales. From the Japs.

"OK if you want to be pedantic about it I'll rephrase for you:

Greenpeace does not target animals that 'good clean white Australians' torture and kill.

Happy now?"

Ecstatic. What animals are you referring too?

I'll confess, I'm curious as to what threatened species Australians do torture and kill.

As for the whale populations, the point I'd make in response is that it took international opinion to get whale populations back from dangerously low levels.

Even if a single country harvesting whales is sustainable, it seems a little unfair that Japan jumps in there when the vast majority of other nations have agreed not to, Norway excepted.

And Greenpeace does object to Norwegian whaling quite strenously in Europe. We don't hear it so loudly here, because Japan is more relevant.

Norwegians are quite WASPish. I don't think the racism argument holds much water. I don't think Australians on the whole are racist to Japan.

I am also skeptical as to the sustainability of Japans whaling claims.

As far as the cultural arguments go, I hardly think taking a sophisticated whaling vessel to the oceans around Australia is a time-honoured tradition.

I once ate whale meat in Norway, but long before I shouldn't have. Good tucker. Never eaten japanese though........They say there are plenty where they come from.

TRTL,

Just a minor correction if I may?

"I'll confess, I'm curious as to what threatened species Australians do torture and kill."

'Good clean WHITE Australians'.....but I'm pedantic.

"Ecstatic. What animals are you referring too?

Thank you for proving my point.

"Even if a single country harvesting whales is sustainable, it seems a little unfair that Japan jumps in there when the vast majority of other nations have agreed not to, Norway excepted.

There are many exceptions. Norway is just one. The fact that Australia is hamstrung by animal libbers need have no impact on Japan. The resource is there, underutilised.

"Norwegians are quite WASPish.

If only more Australians were racist towards them, Greenpeace could raise even more funds by attacking them.

"I am also skeptical as to the sustainability of Japans whaling claims.

At least you are thinking about it. That's a good start.

"As far as the cultural arguments go, I hardly think taking a sophisticated whaling vessel to the oceans around Australia is a time-honoured tradition.

Japan does not need any cultural arguments to support it's whaling. It is the hippies from Greenpeace that decided it is acceptable for 'indiginous' people to kill critically endangered animals while others in plague proportions should be protected.

"Thank you for proving my point."

Ummmm Rightio.

"It is the hippies from Greenpeace that decided it is acceptable for 'indiginous' people to kill critically endangered animals while others in plague proportions should be protected."

Hippies LMFAO. The Gummint may have had something to do with it too. I' sure you've got some facts to back up that statement....or any statement?....That was enlightening. Anyway, back to the Godless bible-basher-bashers.

StG's asking for evidence, and the way you say 'at least you're thinking about it' is a hint that this is a matter you've considered quite deeply.

So I'd like to ask - what are the animals greenpeace is protecting in plague proportions?

And as you indicated before... what are the threatened species that Australians are apparently allowed to wipe out?

My point about Japan is that they shouldn't be allowed to capitalise on the gradually recovering whale numbers, seeing as in order for their harvest to be sustainable, it has to be them and them alone that hunts the whales.

And greenpeace is criticising the norwegian whale hunt, so what's your point there?

It's starting to sound more like a critique of the fringe leftists who bang on about protecting the wrong species, than a genuine criticism of Greenpeace, in which case, it seems we're agreed on things like the stupidity of Viva's attack on the roo cull.

But Viva isnt greenpeace, and roos aren't whales, though you seem to be arguing that they're similar.

"The Gummint may have had something to do with it too.

Sure, they yielded to the Greenpeace hippies.

"StG's asking for evidence, and the way you say 'at least you're thinking about it' is a hint that this is a matter you've considered quite deeply.

How's this for evidence - 1000 Minkes per year over many years with no signs of stock collapse.

"My point about Japan is that they shouldn't be allowed to capitalise on the gradually recovering whale numbers

I suggest you stop lumping all whales together. There are different species you know. Some are endangered. Some are recovering strongly. Some were enver really in danger.

"seeing as in order for their harvest to be sustainable, it has to be them and them alone that hunts the whales

Wrong. They could split it 50/50 with us, if we were prepared to eat whale. That's what the role of the IWC should be - managing the harvest for sustainability (It's not my job to do this over an internet forum) rather than a blanket ban for the animal libbers.

"in which case, it seems we're agreed on things like the stupidity of Viva's attack on the roo cull.

I think it's great to point out hypocrisy, even if they have a different agenda and different values to me.

"though you seem to be arguing that they're similar

They are both food.

Way to dodge the topic, Freediver.

And ya contradicted yourself.

"CJ I'm pretty sure the Minke's are nowhere near endangered. That Japs are taking about 1000 every year. No idea what the maximum sustainable yield would be, but it would be something worthwhile."

That was yesterday. Now you're;

"How's this for evidence - 1000 Minkes per year over many years with no signs of stock collapse.

Did ya get a degree overnight?.

My asking for evidence was in relation to;

"It is the hippies from Greenpeace that decided it is acceptable for 'indiginous' people to kill critically endangered animals while others in plague proportions should be protected."

AND

Where's your evidence Greenpeace ACTUALLY utilise racism as a tool for fund raising?.

AND

"Greenpeace is cutting back on the whaling issue because they have been called out on it in the mainstream press."

AND

"I would often see greenpeace fundraisers on a busy footpath with a big whale picture, a money box and a cute girl with something no-one actually reads printed across her chest asking for money to fight the Japs."

That isn't evidence, that's heresay. And probably bull.

So! How many more compromises are we going to make. Sustainability can only be measured by the amount of people that is needed with the resources that are available.

I will let you Annalise this for your selfs.

Whilst listening to early morning ABC Radio Australia this morning they mentioned how much fish is consumed on Easter Friday. The Christmas Ham is put on a back burner, an all out slaughter of fish & all seafood, except the precious whale! Their slogan was from the poor Australian Pig farmer who is doing it tough. "Save the fish, eat Pork & Ham!"
I say, take it further, "Save the Shark's Fin, Eat Whale Tail!"

Want to know more of how the Japanese think of Australia’s view on whaling watch what the man says himself.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=BTE6wTnkBd8
The speaker in the video

Joji Morishita, the International Affairs Division of Fisheries Agency of Japan. Deputy Whaling Commissioner of Japan.

Fisheries Agency of Japan (English)
http://www.maff.go.jp/eindex.html

america is killing rare whales.
watch this video.
[DragonBall] Freezer VS Japanese whaling
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Pug0yBA...

Whaling Section of Japan
http://www.jfa.maff.go.jp/whale/index... (less)
My source of information was from a fellow member on your tube,http://au.youtube.com/user/whaaaaaale He has also
Detailed information on ‘racism by Australians,’ on his your tube website.. Happy reading. No comment on my ‘humorous post?’
Happy Easter to you all.

Dear readers
I wonder how many protesters to the culling (killing) of Canberra's kangaroos have ever seen how many malnurished kangaroos are dieing in the paddocks of Canberra.
I have travelled all around Australia and have never seen paddocks full of Kangaroo's as in Canberra. Picture the scene of seeing a large mob of sheep in a paddock then picture them as Kangaroo that is what it is like in Canberra.
In a sustainable world, I would like to see the meat used by the dog and cat food area,and the skins made up into garments.This way these animals would not have died in vain and it would show the jap whale killers that the Kangaroos were not killed for nothing.
The sight of two or three whales has no comparison to the millions and millions of kangaroos that are born annually in Australia.

This issue has become emotive as evidenced by the Canberra Times front page today revealing the negative response to the RSPCA's support of the roo cull. Staff have been threatened and abused and support withdrawn for future donations. While the RSPCA has not always acted strongly enough on some issues of animal cruelty (eg. live animal exports, battery eggs and intensive farming) I tend to agree with this article that the reaction is unwarranted and unfair.

Article posted below:

http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/news/local/general/whowillrescuerspca-kangaroo-cull-leads-to-verbalattack-donation-withdrawals/1207963.html

Suggestions by some to relocate the animals rather than cull would be ideal but not feasible. My understanding is that roos are highly territorial and moving them will just create problems in the new location and in any event the kangaroos will pull out all stops to return to Canberra (their territorial home).

Kangaroos are rife in Canberra as Brock states. The humane killing of roos to prevent death from starvation can hardly be compared to whaling. The explosion in roo populations in and around the ACT was exacerbated by the 2003 fires which destroyed large tracts of vegetation - the worst affected areas still look bare and stark (and full of starving kangaroos).

Greenpeace is not run by hippies this is an urban myth - in latter years it has become more corporate. Some activists argue that Greenpeace is too 'tame'(Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd for one). Greenpeace was started by an not so young group of people in Canada from a Qaker background who concerned themselves initially with anti-nuclear activity and then became more environmentally focussed. Greenpeace membership is surprisingly diverse.

StG, you appear to be asking me for evidence that I saw something on the street a few years back. Is that right?

"Sustainability can only be measured by the amount of people that is needed with the resources that are available.

Evolution, there are plenty of ways to 'measure' sustainability.

So! They think, they are right, and they think that, they are right, and they think they are right too! LMAF! Everyone wants there piece of greed, or the planet, and that's the problem. As population grows, the more we lose control of it all, and that's a fact!. So who has the right to control this world? and all that's in it? This is were the world is up too. We have complicated everything, cause to many people are having their right to have a opinion. See the problem!

So to continue! The thing's with roo,s. Its been happening this way for millions of years, and with more species than you can think of. Pigs,sheep,cattel, we have control of them. The only thing we don't have a handle on, is ourselves. and that's a fact! The people say, if you want whale meat, go for it! Don't say I didn't warn you.( cause if one thinks its alright, the whole world will follow) and sheep people we are!

Sustainability, we are in control of, and you all know it! So if we are in such control, why is there so much mess?

Greenpeace! Well, they have their own agenda,( And I have mine, and I know, over population is whats causing it all) and it still comes back to looking out for our own piece of greed. I wonder who will win. I will have no part in this off the planet thinking, cause all I have is an opinion. At least Iam honest about it.

I agree. If someone wants to eat whale meat, they should go for it.

Is it illegal to import whale meat into Australia?

Currently 50% of all kangaroos killed across Australia for pet food and human consumption are females. The joey in the pouch is bashed to death and the young at foot left to die of starvation or predation.
A full time professional shooter phoned me the other day to say he has been shooting 70% females and can't find enough kangaroos to make a living. He's looking for another job to support his family.
Minke whales are not endangered. Their numbers have built up after the blue, sei and fin whales were decimated by the Russian and Japanese whalers.
Killing kangaroos and killing whales is unacceptably cruel.
Both Japan and Australia are wrong.
Australia is hypocritical in attacking Japan and Japan is hypocritical in attacking Australia.
It's time to stop the slaughter.

Do you eat pig?

Yes it's illegal to import whale meat into Australia
No I don't eat pig and haven't for over twenty years when I discovered
how intelligent and sensitive they are - more than many humans.
In the South Pacific they used to call humans "long pig" because they tasted just like pig.
Do you eat human?

That's an odd question.

So your opposition to the consumption of roos and whales is part of a broader opposition to the consumption of many animals including pigs? Are there any animals you do eat or don't mind others eating?

I believe it is not appropriate to eat animals that are endangered (many species of wild fish).
It is not appropriate to eat animals that have been raised cruelly ( battery hens, battery pigs, feedlot cattle for example).
It is not appropriate to eat animals that have been killed in a cruel way (kangaroos and their young).
It is not appropriate to eat animals that have caused the environment to be degraded or poisoned (Vietnamese prawns, farmed fish, cattle and sheep)
Culturally many people object to the eating of horses, cats, dogs, camels, cows (Hindus),pigs (Jews, Muslims,Hindus), whales (except some Japanese), kangaroos (wildlife lovers, Aborigines whose totem is the kangaroo).
From an environmental, humane, personal health and ethical perspective it is better not to eat any meat at all. Many are now choosing that.