TRTL. I would have thought that 10,000 people executed in the last year or so would have shown that there is a large proportion of the common folks willing to take the risk with criminal behaviour. Im happy with what I said about high crime. Im interested in crime, clear up rates, policing etc.

Communicat's right. However, I'd take it further to predict that the Beijing Olympics will indeed be subject to widespread and seriously embarrassing boycotts.

And that's a good thing, I reckon :)

Gibo. Always stand up to bullies. Help China to confront his demons by laughter in the face of his lunacy. The more his 'face' is faced down by cheerful westerners the better.

The Wests' 'pillars' of freedom; liberty, law and disagreement- will win out.

Long live charity.

Hope you are right about the boycotts CJ - we can at least try and encourage such action - letters to the editors of all the newspapers we can think of perhaps?

Gibo, you make some good points, but your ignorance on the crime issue really does let you down here.

Amnesty international has listed more than 60 crimes which earn the death penalty in China. Some are as minor as petty fraud and embezzlement.

When such a large swathe of crimes result in execution and executions are performed without any appeal process, and without hesitation, in a country of a billion, 10,000 is quite minor.

Especially given the lack of rigor in the process, and the fact that China doesn't have much by way of acquittals.

Crime there is indeed very very low. Morality, especially in regard to the government, is a different question, but if you want to persuade informed people, I'd stick to the other reasons - many of which are quite good - than mentioning this one, which simply put, is wrong.

TRTL. I guess we will have just to agree to disagree. The main reason I wrote this thread is to help people NOT to go to Beijing. Globally its an inflamed period and I dont want people to attend the games and get trapped in some unexpected actions. The games may already be targeted for bombings...and its be horrific if one got hurt so far from home in a 3rd world country.