I was just looking at the persecution of the monks in Tibet and of the Tibetan people and I was recalling all of the old black and white movies of the 1930's and 1940's, Lost Horizon was a classic, and I was thinking about the troubles of foreigners in foreign lands and about some of the hazards of attending Beijing, not that I was ever going to such a land myself.
Here's a short list...
1. the pollution, 2. the fact that security people will be everywhere (who knows doing what to foreigners), 3. the crime rates are high in a land where many are amoral, 4. food poisoning might be a troublesome thing, 5. the possibility of traffic deaths (several hundred pedestrians die each day in China just crossing the roads).
Most troubling of all is the destablisation of the "peace factor" in China caused by events like Tibet and by the Islamic extremists in the north...and where this might just lead, as the West responds with her criticism.
If the Chinese military took it upon themselves to have their long expected conflict with Taiwan, when the games were on, the United States of Amercia could do nothing about it because there would be so many westerners on Chinese soil, at the time.
All that they could do, would be to wait til the invasion of Taiwan was over and then help folks home again.
Im not saying that such an event would happen...but it is a concern for me that so many westerners will be there in China under what looks like some very poor conditions...you media people as well.
What might you be sending your reporters and tv folk into?

Gibo, in 35 years China has come a long way- the more visitors, the more exposure, the more to and fro, the better.

Think we should call the Awesome Foursome the Gang Of Four. Gentle mockery will do as much as serious protest against the psychotic Falun Gong and Tibet atrocities.

May a billion flowers bloom.

Ive got to admit Palimpsest China sure has come a long way in the last 35 years or so, though it is a sad fact that she still seems to be unable to throw a bucket of water on her aggression.
I could put this it into a simple Christian/Bible perspective and point to demon powers controlling the government and the general national worship as to why it is but I dont think all readers really grasp that particular concept...or are even willing to look at it.
I think what we are looking at is the beginning of a much bigger thing with China.
I think the games will be a fizzer because people will see what the Chinese government really is (again), and that they are not going to change, and they will either not buy tickets or will cancel them.
This will then stir up an anger in China that we have never previously seen and out of this many bad times will flow... maybe even an invasion of Taiwan.
My knowledge, as a committed christian who gathers in prophecies from The Lord to the christian churches, is that China and the USA are headed for a face to face conflict.
If you are headed to the Beijing games I would advise you to think about it. Its a long, long, long, long, long way from home if anything happens.

See my note in OLO - we need to act on the suggestion by KM Gunn in the Australian today (Tuesday) and relocate the Olympics even if it means breaking them up.
That is the only way that the majority of Chinese are even going to learn about what is happening in Tibet. The Chinese actions are cultural genocide and need to be acknowledged as such. Their claim to Tibet is shaky at best and, in reality, probably does not exist but tell people something often enough and they will believe it.
Our government is behaving disgracefully - kowtowing to the Chinese leadership for fear of economic reprisal.
The Dalai Lama would request a boycott of the Olympics if he were in a position to do so but he has the safety of the Tibetan people to consider.
May I humbly suggest that Forum participants use their letter writing skills and suggest some alternatives to giving legitimacy to the Chinese government's actions?

Fair points gibo, but you botched the one on crime.

China's crime rate is startlingly low. Might have something to do with the death penalty being so quickly applied and executions within hours of trials.

Good idea on that last request Communicat. Ive already been in parts like the Times Online suggesting that games travellers might like to avoid the games because of safety issues.
Imagine getting stranded on the Chinese mainland if things suddenly closed down if Islamic wildboys in the north wanted to plant bombs in Beijing or Tibetans likewise?
We can all do something about Chinas immorality in Tibet other than sigh and move on.

TRTL. I would have thought that 10,000 people executed in the last year or so would have shown that there is a large proportion of the common folks willing to take the risk with criminal behaviour. Im happy with what I said about high crime. Im interested in crime, clear up rates, policing etc.

Communicat's right. However, I'd take it further to predict that the Beijing Olympics will indeed be subject to widespread and seriously embarrassing boycotts.

And that's a good thing, I reckon :)

Gibo. Always stand up to bullies. Help China to confront his demons by laughter in the face of his lunacy. The more his 'face' is faced down by cheerful westerners the better.

The Wests' 'pillars' of freedom; liberty, law and disagreement- will win out.

Long live charity.

Hope you are right about the boycotts CJ - we can at least try and encourage such action - letters to the editors of all the newspapers we can think of perhaps?

Gibo, you make some good points, but your ignorance on the crime issue really does let you down here.

Amnesty international has listed more than 60 crimes which earn the death penalty in China. Some are as minor as petty fraud and embezzlement.

When such a large swathe of crimes result in execution and executions are performed without any appeal process, and without hesitation, in a country of a billion, 10,000 is quite minor.

Especially given the lack of rigor in the process, and the fact that China doesn't have much by way of acquittals.

Crime there is indeed very very low. Morality, especially in regard to the government, is a different question, but if you want to persuade informed people, I'd stick to the other reasons - many of which are quite good - than mentioning this one, which simply put, is wrong.

TRTL. I guess we will have just to agree to disagree. The main reason I wrote this thread is to help people NOT to go to Beijing. Globally its an inflamed period and I dont want people to attend the games and get trapped in some unexpected actions. The games may already be targeted for bombings...and its be horrific if one got hurt so far from home in a 3rd world country.

Philo.
Sorry about what happened to your grandson. Churches have to be sure that they are dealing with a demon very carefully; and not just fallen nature or personal quirk.
Sometimes churches get a super zeal for exorcisms that isnt good or based on the truth of a situation.
As for demons as I have said...they are there...and cannot be put away with theory.
If you havent! lived with a life knowledge of their existance, you dont know.
Same with all of you folk.

Sorry guys my computers doing funny things. Im on the wrong thread.