The situation for women in Iraq has become a "national crisis" since the US-led invasion in 2003, a report by an international women's group has warned
It has been five years since the American invasion of Iraq and still no-one has stopped to listen to what this critical mass of the population, women, have to say about solving the problems

Zainab Salbi, Women for Women International
For more information
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7282064.stm

Wow ASymeonakis you have done it again. Here is what it was like for women under Saddam –

http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0211.html

I don’t recall any cases recently of 50 young women having their heads cut off and then hung in the doorways of there homes!

For women in a country that transforming its tough! But hey I think it is tough on everybody not just women and we hope in the long run things get better for them!

Sanctions by the USA in the mid 90s led to the deaths of approximately 500000 children........ take a minute to try and comprehend that number....... And what did the Secretary of State of the USA have to say about that decision at the time? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK_QshS2EW8

Lots of Myths floating around this thread also.

1/
BEFORE: (Invasion)"they had had relative autonomy and security"

AFTER (Invasion) but now faced violence, controversial leadership and poor infrastructure.

Lets upack this in real world terms rather than manipulative socialist terms.

a) Yes, relative to a stint in the fires of HELL... they had 'relative' "autonomy and security". If you were a cute girl in a poor neighbourhood, you could expect one of Saddams animal sons to come along any tick of the clock and after scanning the class say "YOU.. come..now" and the rest defies description.
Well said EAsytimes for giving balance there.
Or..if they were involved in anything political, or their brother, or father, they could expect to be dragged to Abu Ghraib, have their eyes gouged out with the offending family member watching, simply as a 'lesson' to their father or brother "Don't mess with Comrade Saddaam."

b) NOW...
-'controversial leadership' ? err.. is ANY leadership not contoversial? What a stupid thing to say.
-Violence? ummm and it was not the case before ?
-POOR INFRASTRUCTURE? r u kidding!? why is this so? Hmmmm because Al Qaeda and other IRAQI's are blowing it all up! To try to show the very thing this survey found, in order to get some cheap propoganda points.

2/ SANCTIONS KILLED.
Utter drivel and rubbish. What killed was that Saddam was diverting, and using 'Oil for Food' money for NEW PALACES. He didn't care SQUAT for the people.. and deliberately let the children die so that IDIOTS would say stupid, moronic shallow things like 'Sanctions killed'.

Now.. the next mindless bit of verbal drool and drivel here is unspoken, but implied.

Sanctions were bad...
Invasion was bad.....
So.. SADDAM was GOOD?

What do you take us for ? Just for the record.."No, we are not intellectually or information challenged"

This thread Antonios was nothing more than a Socialist 'Whack-USA' exercise.

"This thread Antonios was nothing more than a Socialist 'Whack-USA' exercise."

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Matthew 7:3

Heaven forbid, Boaz, that you actually read the article. Much easier to invent your own reality.

Boaz: >>Yes, relative to a stint in the fires of HELL... they had 'relative' "autonomy and security". If you were a cute girl in a poor neighbourhood, you could expect one of Saddams animal sons to come along any tick of the clock and after scanning the class say "YOU.. come..now" and the rest defies description<<

Article: "According to the report, 63.9% of those [1,513 women] questioned said violence against women was increasing."

Even if your imagined "Saddam's animal son" scenario is accurate, the women are saying that today, it is worse.

Which part of that do you not understand?

>>Sanctions were bad... Invasion was bad..... So.. SADDAM was GOOD?<<

Your black-and-white view of the world takes you to some very strange places sometimes, Boaz, few stranger than this.

Is it not possible for you to accept that it is possible that Saddam was evil, but that the "cure" turned out to be worse than the disease itself?

Are you so accustomed to knee-jerk a reaction to anything that you see as "a Socialist 'Whack-USA' exercise", that you proceed to write anything that comes into your head, without bothering to weigh up the pros and cons?

"...in 2004... despite the fact that none of the women felt their families' most basic needs were entirely met, 90.6% were optimistic about the future. But in late 2007, the nationwide poll of 1,513 Iraqi women found only 26.9% continued to be optimistic about the situation in their country."

Can't you simply look at this and feel sad for these people? Having been overjoyed that the evil dictator was toppled, and excited at the prospect of being able to live free and safe, these people feel disappointed, let down, betrayed.

Instead, you take aim at the poster and his "mindless bit of verbal drool and drivel"

Christian charity at its finest.

I hope you have a great day.

Or at least, a better one than the women of Iraq are experiencing.

BUGSY... John 3:36... get yourself on the right side of that equation and you can then pick on me :)

Its so easy to pick verses..I do it myself. But make sure that the verses you pick, are not in conflict with the example of Jesus.
Remember the righteous anger in the Temple ? I spose he was just 'looking at specks in other eyes' ? Or.. perhaps he was the only one qualified by his perfect life to do such a thing, in which case, it makes me wonder why you are not more closely allied to him in heart.

PERICLES.. my quote was 'from' the article. What I'm reacting to, and rather 'hysterically' is the incredible insult to our intelligence that the likes of these leftard jouno's come up with when the make these kinds of sweeping statements about Iraq based on very shabby information, which appears to be deliberately skewed to produce a pre-determined result.

Steel seems to have swallowed it hook, line, sinker AND fisherman...

500,000 children ? and then he dangles this 'just try to comprehend'...before our (hopefully) wide gazing (glazed) eyes.
As I said.... most of those problems about which the women expressed unhappiness are not caused by the Allies but by the terrorists/nationalists who themselves are partisan/sectarian and doing most of the killing.

INFRASTRUCTURE ? who blows it up?

PERSONAL SECURITY ? Who comes along in death squads looking for a Shia or a Sunni depending on which brand of death squad is coming.

Of COURSE things are bad, but not even 'mainly' due to the Allies.

Christian charity? come off the grass.. this is robust debate and when 'drivel' is dispensed, drivel it is called. It does irritate me when everything bad, most of which is caused by Iraqis and outsiders like Al Qaeda not to mention Iranian covert ops... is allll blamed on 'Bush and the USA'....

Its so transparent, obvious, blatant and stark that I feel very insulted to think I'm expected to throw common sense out the window and just drink it in.....

Democracy is the best system to promote people's rights, human rights, women rights. In Iraq, USA used their guns to demolish Saddam's dictatorship and create a democratic system. We have two similar surveys undertaken by the same organization in 2004 and one in late 2007. What did we found from these similar surveys?
1. in 2004 90.6% were optimistic about the future, in late 2007 ONLY 26.9% optimistic about the situation in Iraq. Why Iraqi women become so pessimistic? What changed from 2004 to 2007?
63.9% said violence against them had increased, 76.2% said girls in their family were not allowed to attend school. Iraq's new draft constitution, which has yet to be approved by parliament, contains an article under which family law would be replaced with a new system determined according to the religion. Iraqi democracy is slippering to Iran's kind of democracy. Under Saddam regime the women had some rights, in new Iraqi democracy 76.2% said girls in their family were not allowed to attend school! Do you understand what it means? How different is the Iraqi democracy from Iran Democracy? We will see it very clear when Americans leave Iraq. I think next year. I understand very well Iraqi women's worries. Do you? Sharia law is coming thanks to Bush!
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

"Democracy is the best system to promote people's rights, human rights, women rights."

So women are not human, nor people? And human's are not people?

Next time stick with human rights, and drop the women crap. It's less complicated, less discriminatory and it includes ALL human beings, not one sub class. This is how it works:

- Men are beaten, women are raped = human rights violated in country X.

See how it works? This is how society currently works (unintentionally due to indoctrination or not):

- Women are raped = women's rights violated

...

...

Take a look at this graph produced in 2005, representing 2 years of conflict:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41319000/gif/_41319877_civilian_victims4_pie203.gif

Your topic "National Crisis for Iraq Women"

Now what percentage of men's lives have been ended in Iraq as shown in that graph?

81.7% EIGHTY ONE PERCENT

Now how many women's lives have been ended in that conflict?

8.7% .....eight measly percent...i think it's obvious who are the REAL victims in this war. Just imagine if the statistics were reversed: The endless flood of feminist crap streaming into our published and televised media...

And you Symenokis have the AUDACITY to whine about the hardship women have faced.

- - - - - - - - - -
As for David_BOAZ, you are uninformed on the subject. While you state the sanctions were bad, you also seem to dispute the culpability of those who imposed the sanctions (despite the obvious choice in applying them and Albright's words). And you apparently don't register the sheer amount of death caused by western, christian nations implementing these sanctions.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084

"The summer of 2001 saw a revival of long-discredited claims that sanctions are not to blame for Iraq's suffering"

...and they persist years later.

Steel,
while I disagree with you about the women's rights I agree with you about the death of 500.000 innocent Iraqi children. This was a crime against humanity but as you know ONLY the losers are criminals! The International Criminal Court give us a hope but not every one respect and recognize it.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide