Vanilla,

'When feminists critique culture, they are not blaming men'
They are when they opine men create society or culture. Which has been said by Yvonne, and Bronwyn and Danielle. The supposed 'man's world' of the workplace for example on the 'fair go for women' blog.

I say it's not the law makers or even necessarily voters who create society. I think the plebs actually form most of societies values, and the priveledged and politicians use these values to manipulate them. Men and women create culture and society, so women are 50% to blame for all this supposed inequality they highlight at every oportunity.

For every woman who thinks the world would be wonderful, and have no war, if only women held all the positions of legislative and political power, they just don't truely understand the nature of power, leadership, forced compromise and politics.

It's pretty easy for these women standing on the sidelines (through lack of oportunity or not) to be untainted by humankinds path thus far, while reaping the rewards in standard of living. The fact is they have been just as complicit as men in creating 'society', but still hold this superiority complex for this supposed compassionate and fair world say they WOULD have created.

Like the woman in Brisbane who murdered her partner because he wouldn’t let her play a Bruce Springsteen CD and “who the hell doesn’t like Bruce Springsteen?” I’ve had a brain snap. I'm now officially sick of being told — fallaciously — what I believe, and hearing tortured versions of what others have said (particularly Romany and Danielle, whose posts seem to bear absolutely no relation to the contorted summaries they inspire), and hearing mindless twaddle about “feminists”, and hearing reductio ad absurdum arguments or simple half-arsed analyses of culture which carry no ambition to solve problems, or improve society, or even to be particularly perspicacious or witty or interesting, but seek only to “win” a competition about whose life is more tragic which your opponents are not interetsed in playing.

It just seem impossible to have any meaningful conversation about gender without someone — and yes, on this boards, mostly blokes — getting oversensitve and feeling victimised and blamed and saying, “you’re being sexist.” I rarely use the word “sexist” — I doubt I ever have on OLO — but if I did, it would be about something real, something genuinely discrimatory against either women or men. Not because the other gender made *three* posts this week and we didn’t make any. And yet, week after week, none of the people who claim that the feminist material on OLO is “sexist,” and feel the material “blames” them and they’re “victims” of it, manage to write just one article, or start just one thread, to advance their own concerns.

Whitty, I’ve never seen any evidence to suggest you: “truely [sic] understand the nature of power, leadership, forced compromise and politics.” If you do, why not share it? And if so, you need to market yourself better, because you give off an aura of someone who feels hard done by but doesn't want to actually do anything about it.

Meanwhile, I don’t sit on the sidelines. And I don’t know one woman who does.

Vanilla > "and hearing reductio ad absurdum arguments or simple half-arsed analyses of culture which carry no ambition to solve problems, or improve society.."

On the contrary, how does wanting to eliminate this sexism and expose this divide (with some exception) is not attempting to solve anything? That very divide is creating problems. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1555&page=0#29554 That happens because of deliberate attempts to change laws.

> "..but seek only to “win” a competition about whose life is more tragic which your opponents are not interested in playing."

Wrong. Men comment on this subject and are participating by doing so. Since feminists are so pervasive in our society, it's a little hard to be taken seriously when their indoctrination causes people to label them misogynists and "whingers". As i said before i do not engage in sexism otherwise i would be a hypocrite (except of course where the goal is to unwind the damage).

No one is trying to win a "competition: They are saying that feminism has gone too far and should stop. It's pointless and divisive and it's manipulating society into something that isn't equal. Again, the "digital age is a dark age for women" is a shining example of this corrosion.

> "So if I wanted to raise the issue of, say, prostate cancer being neglected by society, or female on male domestic violence being ignored by it, or shouldn't maternity pay be parental pay, then I should have to twist these issues around to make them "gender free issues"?"

Too literal. There was a thread a while ago on female circumcision. In it, feminists were uninformed and actively fought to separate the issue of male circumcision. They even defend the practice. I found their position abhorrent. Such forceful genital mutilation OF EITHER SEX is EQUALLY wrong. PERIOD. You can't cry about one (like these feminists) and not the other, or you are both a sexist and hypocrite.

> "Can you think of any solutions... How can we improve the situation?"

It's so pervasive it's up to individuals to not support it when they see it and inform others.

that last sentence probably comes off poorly. what i mean is, if you understand the effects (read the links etc i presented) and see the media awash with this kind of crap, then you should realise what you're seeing is feminism overstepping it's bounds.

Vanilla,

I must have really hit a nerve somewhere. I used to think you were pretty reasonable, and I'm not sure how to react to that post. I think it's best I ignore it. Regardless of my 'aura' I don't feel hard done by, and to refute an assertion of women as victims is very different to portraying men as victims.

Whitty,
In every society there are various types of social values, which was created from various human groups. But the main values of a society are the values of the leading human group. While until now human societies passed from various stages, took various forms, all these societies in all their stages or forms have had something common, they was created MAINLY, (not absolutely) by men. Only last century women have started to involve with politics, noticeable. I believe (I DO NOT ASK ANY ONE TO AGREE WITH ME) I believe women's involvement with politics will be A BIG PLUS for future generations. I believe that at least 30 percent seats of a parliament, government or any important organization should given to women. But most of all I like Chile, Spain and Sweden which have complete gender parity in government.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
Very sorry for my poor english!