CJ, - well there's something we have in common, eh? Used to scramble around The Trail (and swim in the pub swimming pool)as a kid - when there was never a "sentimental bloke" in sight.

I was in fact using as my reference a couple of people who are helping mediate in the process from the PNG side and who abhor the fact that the FW label has been taken out of context and picked up and dumped into widespread usage today.

Yeah, the people who helped back in the day were proud of the label (used to qualify the important noun "Angels")and their descendants in turn proud of the history. But using it to refer to contemporary inhabitants of the area (a usage not confined solely to this thread)is as much a solecism as referring to "N*gger Minstrels"; another common usage of the time.

YIkes.. well aside from the rather twisted excursions of CJ and ROMANY into 'its racism' re my use of the term 'FuzzyWuzzy' (dark indeed are those MaCarthyist minds of yours)

CJ did raise an important point. "Idenity" yes.. of course.. a dimension hithertoo escaping the discussion. In fact, there would be no better 'identity' to attack to this issue from the point of view of shaming the Australian government! There is very little emotional capital in 'Papuans demand copper mine' but substitute FW for P and immediately you have a connection to a historical debt we owe.

Romany "We big, you small" is exactly the kind of blunt-object language used by the US State dept toward diplomats of tiny countries who actually think they figure in the scheme of things covered by 'American Interests'.. except that it might be a bit more colorful.. one quote I recall made a comparison between the USA as an Elephant and the whining small country as an 'ant'.

The issue of 'identity' in lobbying has certainly not escaped the left in other case "The Barwon 13" to cite an example.

Surely then, if 'Fuzzy Wuzzy' is racist, 'Sentimental Bloke' is equally so. Bottom line.. stop looking for a 'racist' behind every Forum green tree and under every OLO rock.

Taking the issue of 'identity' a step further, I suppose Canberra could utilize the 'Diggers who saved the Papuans' kind of line if they wanted to.

The other important points raised in CJ's posts, was the actual location of the real track and the variety of tribal groups.

It is often the case that when a public stance based on wrong information (location) is taken, there is also reluctance to withdraw from it. So, Canberra might conveniently forget that reality in the discussions?

BD,"stop looking for a 'racist' behind every Forum green tree and under every OLO rock."
1) "Stop looking" infers that one cease an action already undertaken. I am not, do not, nor ever have been in the habit of looking for racists.

2) "under EVERY...." infers that in each article or post on OLO I engage in this behaviour. I do not.

3) the word racist is a legitimate word. It is neither a quote nor slang. It does not therefore require quotation marks. If your intention is to distance yourself from racism then say so.

5) It was not my intention to infer that anyone was racist. Careless and/or unthinking in regards to language, yes. That the nomenclature was redolent of a paternalistic attitude, perhaps. Presenting the question from another viewpoint for those who had never considered it that way, definitely.

6) The statement that my thinking is "twisted" or "dark" is both mistaken and unwarranted. I am, however, as I have mentioned many times, curious. Could you explain how you came to this conclusion? I considered it a fairly straight line from A to B:- The post contains the words Fuzzy Wuzzy which, I agree, many people utter with affection. I pointed out that, when it was coined, the world was a different place. I possess the first-hand knowledge that nowadays there are those who are offended by it. I referred to another title which was considered innocuous at the time of coining but would now be considered by all to be a racial slur, to both illustrate my point and give insight into how those who object to the FW title feel.

7) I am not well-versed in American history but have always associated MacCarthyism with an unfair witch hunt for communists. Obviously I am mistaken. Could you expand a little?

8)Using hyperbole, exaggeration, generalisations and presenting unfounded conclusions does not constitute debate.

9) Uttering such words as: "I disagree" "Oh. I never thought of that before." or "I see your point" do not cause one to lose face.

Dear Romany... please lighten up a tad.

Macarthyism is a euphemism for 'witch hunt' yes..if was reds under the beds, but the idea of finding 'racists' under the fuzzy wuzzy beds means its an appropriate metaphor.

But rather firmly suggesting I 'drop' certain terms seemed to be based on an assumption of racism... CJ then supported my use of that terminology by stating that the people themselves would be ok with it..
leaving your comments a tiny bit like lone shags on rocks.

Anyway.. moving on, chill.. relax.. *here* a diet cola for ya :)

Actually no, Boazy. Once again you conscript my support in missing the point. It's an annoying habit of yours.

You must have missed my assertion that the "fuzzy wuzzy" bit would be rightly regarded anywhere else in PNG as being racist. Further, as the landowners in the mine area have demonstrated, it's an identity they'll gladly shed if there's a better deal apparently on offer. There's a great doco on this sort of thing made by Australian filmmaker Dennis O'Rourke called "Cannibal Tours".

It's all about the interactions between European tourists and tribal people in East Sepik Province - but from the perspective of the "fuzzy wuzzies". Their comments about the tourists are quite instructive about how people in PNG feel about adopting roles for tourists for money. It'd be interesting to interview any of the many young men who do the actual hard work of carrying all the tourists' luggage and camp gear as they affirm their mostly Aussie egos on their personal journeys on the Kokoda Track.

Also (I have to say this if only because nobody else has pointed it out), the "Sentimental Bloke" thing is another anachronism. CJ Dennis' poem had nothing to do with the Kokoda Track, and rather was taken up in the aftermath of Gallipoli in WW1. While it's a wonderful expression of Australian culture at its moment of breaking away from its colonial cradle, it has only the most tenuous connection to the way that current Australians regard the Kokoda Track.

But trust Boazy to make it :)

For goodness' sake, BD! "Lighten up" "Chill", indeed.

Because I didn't sprinkle my post with comic-strip interjections (Yikes?), and I set out clearly what I was trying to say are you somehow now convinced I am full of rage/angst/chagrin or some other "dark" emotion?

I did state clearly that I wasn't necessarily imputing racism to you (in this instance at least). I was inviting you to perhaps think before you speak and to keep abreast of changing perceptions. I was also objecting to the generalisations and veiled implications with which you seek to make points. But I guess it didn't work, huh? Hence the somewhat tortured simile likening my post to a sea-bird?

I don't consider my viewpoint invalid because you don't share it. CJ, above, has spelled out for you once more what his view is. The conclusion I am pretty sure that both of us has drawn is that CJ knows some people who don't object to the title while I know some people who do. Which shows merely that there are two views of the subject.

One thing I am absolutely certain of though: had the Fates (or Furies) not snipped the thread, my own "fuzzy wuzzy angel" would now be a young lady whose fuzzy wuzzy (and Oxford educated) father and all the rest of her fuzzy wuzzy relatives and friends would have had your guts for garters had you applied such an epithet to her!

PS - I'm with CJ re "The Sentimental Bloke". But am also intrigued in regards to one of your previous posts: how on EARTH does calling a bloke "sentimental" equate in any way, shape or form with racism?